USA - Mayo clinic

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Merged thread

David Tuller: Trial By Error: Mayo Still Champions GET

Well lets all go to Dr Bing then, 'cos he's got it sussed! "The diagnosis involves several tests to identify the underlying cause". And all this time the rest of the world has still been trying to find the answers.

Perhaps you're thinking of Bing Crosby as kindly old Dr. Cook in the 1971 telefilm "Dr. Cook's Garden." Of course, it turns out that kindly old Dr. Cook is surreptitiously euthanizing all the "bad" people in town, "weeding his garden" as it were.

To be fair, the phrase, "The diagnosis involves several tests to identify the underlying cause" could be a reference to CFS being a diagnosis of exclusion. That is, "the diagnosis involves several tests to identify the underlying cause," and, when that comes a cropper, you get diagnosed with CFS.

 

[Barry]

To be fair, the phrase, "The diagnosis involves several tests to identify the underlying cause" could be a reference to CFS being a diagnosis of exclusion. That is, "the diagnosis involves several tests to identify the underlying cause," and, when that comes a cropper, you get diagnosed with CFS.

Yeeeeesss ... but it sort of omits to then say that in the case of CFS the search for an underlying cause will then prove fruitless at this time.

 

[Kalliope]

Merged thread

Trial By Error: More Mayo, Please

This sort of willful ignorance on the part of leading medical institutions like Mayo, while not uncommon when it comes to the illness currently called ME/CFS by federal agencies, is nonetheless dismaying.

 

[Sly Saint]

@dave30th

maybe if you asked them nicely they might send you their Handbook for Happiness?
"
The Mayo Clinic Handbook for Happiness

Discover 4 simple steps to live a resilient, joy-filled life.

...Step Three produces results that users say range from “momentary calm” to “ecstatic bliss".

The Mayo Clinic Handbook for Happiness can truly transform your life."

https://order.store.mayoclinic.com/...ppiness-Book&utm_medium=Link&utm_content=MCHH

 

[dave30th]

maybe if you asked them nicely they might send you their Handbook for Happiness?
"

Wow, I don't think I could take that much happiness and joy!

 

[Sean]

And then there’s a section on “symptom-focused behaviors.” These behaviors include: “wincing or grimacing,” “groaning or crying,” “frequently talking about symptoms,” “moving slowly,” “rubbing the affected area,” “using protective devices (such as a brace, cane or splint),” “lying down,” “withdrawing from others,” “limiting activity.”

*sigh*

“You may be wondering how you can possibly exercise regularly when, on many days, you are so tired you can hardly get out of bed. The key is graded exercise—an exercise plan that starts gently and gradually becomes more challenging. Graded exercise lets your body slowly adjust to increased activity while improving your physical fitness. Research has shown that gradually increasing exercise can improve chronic fatigue symptoms. In one study, 70 percent of participants with chronic fatigue reported feeling better after completing a supervised program of graduated exercise.”

Don't you just love their certainty.

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

So annoying ...even if you put aside the garbage content ....the tone is so patronising.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

More Mayo
...is nonetheless dismaying.


I didn't know David did bad jokes as well.

Does that make Knoop 'Hollandaise' and Monaghan 'HP sauce'.

 

[Trish]

@dave30th

maybe if you asked them nicely they might send you their Handbook for Happiness?
"
The Mayo Clinic Handbook for Happiness

Discover 4 simple steps to live a resilient, joy-filled life.

...Step Three produces results that users say range from “momentary calm” to “ecstatic bliss".

The Mayo Clinic Handbook for Happiness can truly transform your life."

https://order.store.mayoclinic.com/...ppiness-Book&utm_medium=Link&utm_content=MCHH

Blimey, Mayo really have turned into quack central:

The blurb about the handbook includes:

Based on Dr. Sood’s popular, clinically proven stress management program, The Mayo Clinic Handbook for Happiness offers a straightforward plan anyone can implement across 10 weeks. Dr. Sood’s four-step self-help process is a joy to undertake and offers you wonderful rewards:

• In Step One, you’ll learn how to better regulate what you think and perceive. This step is actually so enjoyable, Dr. Sood likens it to "adding chocolate powder to your glass of milk."
  
• Step Two is truly powerful. It will “enhance your inner strength by making you emotionally resilient and happier."
  
• Step Three produces results that users say range from “momentary calm” to “ecstatic bliss."
  
• Step Four is designed to “help you decrease your stress and increase the energy available to you each day."

The Mayo Clinic Handbook for Happiness can truly transform your life. It’s based on the exact same techniques Dr. Sood has used to help many, many others.

Where's that tripe picture when we need it.

 

[Snowdrop]

I'd wager, despite the lofty reputation of the Mayo (well deserved in some respects) this is not the first time they've embraced woo. Fads come and go. This one I think started with Jon Kabat Zinn and his work studying Matthieu Richard.

Their hearts are in the right place but the work that all this is built on is not substantial. It takes a complex social problem and distills it down into a simple formula that is solely the responsibility of the individual.

Mayo has drunk deeply of this particular kool-aid. But I think it really is a passing fancy. I just don't know for how long (or if we can hurry it's demise).

It seems to be a stellar example of how even as science progresses the seductiveness of woo has a siren cry that even those who should know better can't resist. Maybe it's also an example of how desperate ill people can be forgiven for thinking some snake oil medicine might just work for what ails them, after all the Mayo can cure us of malign vapours that overcome us.

 

[MeSci]

*sigh*

Don't you just love their certainty.

I wonder what they consider "frequently talking about symptoms”? Isn't that what a patient is supposed to talk about with a health professional?

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

Blimey, Mayo really have turned into quack central:

The blurb about the handbook includes:


Where's that tripe picture when we need it.

 

[Barry]

More Mayo
...is nonetheless dismaying.


I didn't know David did bad jokes as well.

Does that make Knoop 'Hollandaise' and Monaghan 'HP sauce'.

...

Edit: Or Edwards 'King'?

 

[Tom Kindlon]

 

[Webdog]

You find this positive psychology nonsense all over Kaiser Permanente as well. That maintaining a certain mindset has measurable effects on physical health.

It's probably just a matter of time before Kaiser Permanente publishes a handbook.

Optimism:

Being more optimistic and feeling more in control can:

• boost your immunity against colds and infections
• prolong your life if you’re older or facing a life-threatening illness
• reduce your sick days and symptoms of illness
• help you recover more quickly from surgery

https://thrive.kaiserpermanente.org...ll/become-an-optimist-and-improve-your-health

Forgiveness:

Conversely, there’s strong research demonstrating that engaging in forgiveness reduces the cortisol circulating in your body, leading to many benefits, including lower blood pressure, cholesterol and heart attack risk, and better sleep. Forgiveness also helps you to regulate your stress response and reduce your overall level of anxiety and depression.

https://share.kaiserpermanente.org/article/health-benefits-forgiveness/

Gratitude:

“Studies show that people who are more grateful exercise more, sleep better, and have better immune function,” said Dr. Whaley, a psychiatrist with Kaiser Permanente Georgia. “Practicing gratitude also strengthens relationships and provides protection against envy, materialism, depression and substance abuse.

https://wa-health.kaiserpermanente.org/gratitude-benefits/

As James Coyne insightfully points out in a blog post about gratitude, these religious concepts are disguised patient-shaming:

Promoters of positive psychology get particularly annoying in their insistence that we should practice gratitude or risk putting our health and well-being at risk.

They shame us with claims we do not express enough gratitude. They insist we program expressing gratitude into our daily lives, even while remaining ignorant of whether the particular circumstances of our life warrant being grateful or provide a suitable opportunity to express gratitude.

https://www.coyneoftherealm.com/blo...ssing-gratitude-improves-your-physical-health

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

Wow ....gratitude and forgiveness....it’s almost like we are regressing to the mediaeval where psychiatry is a new form of oppressive religion to keep the peasants in line...perhaps the next stage is to burn non-compliant patients at the stake for being heretics.

 

[Sean]

They can shove their demand for bogus acts of gratitude and forgiveness where the sun never shines.

I can't tell you how much I loathe the positive psych movement, in all its epistemologically and morally bankrupt forms. Always have, since long before I got ME. They are the worst of the lot.

Always try to make the best of your situation? Sure, perfectly good generic life advice to give to your child. But any further than that is sinking quickly into sophistry, self-delusion, and shamelessly preying upon the desperate.

 

[Suffolkres]

I wonder what they consider "frequently talking about symptoms”? Isn't that what a patient is supposed to talk about with a health professional?

If you didn't talk about it and focused on other things, you would be accused of,"Persuasive Refusal Syndrome"....really, the patient is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

 

[Inara]

Wow ....gratitude and forgiveness....it’s almost like we are regressing to the mediaeval where psychiatry is a new form of oppressive religion to keep the peasants in line...perhaps the next stage is to burn non-compliant patients at the stake for being heretics.

We're already "burnt", although metaphorically. And I agree - exactly this is psychiatry's job in my view.

 

[Tom Kindlon]