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Possibility of ME or PVFS after COVID-19, Long Covid

Discussion in 'Epidemics (including Covid-19)' started by Hip, Jan 21, 2020.

  1. Hip

    Hip Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Moderator note: Use this thread to discuss the possibility of an ME/CFS or ME/CFS-like illness following Covid-19.

    Initial posts have been moved from the Coronavirus - world-wide spread and control thread. (Up to post #840 so far)

    ***************
    It's interesting that in the 2003 SARS coronavirus outbreak in China (where the mortality rate was 11%), some of the survivors developed post-SARS syndrome, an ME/CFS-like condition.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2020
  2. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Where did you read this? I have only seen developments of PTSD post SARS.
     
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  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It's been discussed on ME/CFS forums before. Here is a paper.
     
  4. Milo

    Milo Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There was a SARS outbreak in Toronto. I have also read that some went on to develop ME. i forgot where i read that from.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
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  5. Michiel Tack

    Michiel Tack Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I wonder wether the virus will lead to an increase in ME/CFS incidence. There's this study suggesting an increase after the 2009 influenza A (H1N1) pandemic: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26475444

    Hope that scientists will follow up on sufficient persons affected by SARS CoV-2.
     
  6. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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  7. hinterland

    hinterland Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes, that's true. This might be a good opportunity for a prospective study, following the longterm outcomes of people infected by Sars-Cov-2. Similar to the study done by White et al on EBV, (probably his only ever biomedical paper and frequently cited by himself as credentials for a lack of bias, but anyway that's another story...).
     
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  8. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Increased risk yes, but a tiny blip in increased cases. The incidence rate due to influenza infection in your cited study was 1 in 20000 person-months.
     
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  9. BurnA

    BurnA Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There I was eating my dinner watching the BBC News to catch up on the latest about Corona virus.
    Then Simon Wessely appears on screen staring right at me, spouting on about it.

    Dinner ruined.

    Is there anything this guy isn't an expert on.
     
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  10. JemPD

    JemPD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Oh no doubt he will be consulting on the mass panic etc. I was thinking the other day that those who may get ME after corona will be in an even worse position, with all the BS psychologising ...'you think it was more serious than it really was' type nonsense.
     
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  11. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Well...there's no cure, possibility to blame the patient - abnormal beliefs, ineffective handwashing - maybe abnormal beliefs about the effects of handwashing :jawdrop:.

    Most recover in time, we don't really know why some others don't...

    Whatever the problem, Simon can help.......soak up any spare research cash, limelight etc.
     
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  12. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Worse than childbirth'


    Clare Gerada, a London-based family doctor and former chairwoman of the Royal College of General Practitioners, has tweeted that she is now recovering after an "unwelcome visit" from Covid-19.

    Dr Gerada described the experience as the "worst case of the flu I have ever had" and it was "worse than child birth".

    She added that she is still going to self-isolate for another few days.
     
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  13. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Jonathan Edwards Gerada also mentioned that she feels a strange fatigue even after the infection. I wonder if she is going to develop ME/CFS.
     
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  14. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Ironically that might change things significantly .....
     
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  15. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Its most probably just the more common post viral fatigue. If Covid-19 induces ME in any substantial number of survivors, and its a possibility it will, this is a nightmare scenario for the world. Even though I would welcome the sudden attention and recognition of ME, its far too high a price.
     
  16. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    Needs to give herself a good talking to to sort out her unhelpful beliefs about fatigue before it goes too far.
     
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  17. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That sounds a lot like catastrophising to me.

    A spot of online CBT was no doubt prescribed.
     
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  18. Milo

    Milo Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yup yup. Catastrophizing. She has also insulted women in labor.
     
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  19. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    OK, I admit it. I laughed at that one.

    Well played, sir.
     
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  20. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It appears so. Of course it was framed almost entirely as mental illness at the time so nothing came of it. There was a Reuters article that framed it entirely as psychological consequences, somatoform pain, etc. So basically nobody actually took this seriously because of the misleading framing, which is this way because nobody takes us seriously because of the misleading framing. Layers upon layers of failure lead to this.

    https://bmcneurol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2377-11-37

    Chronic widespread musculoskeletal pain, fatigue, depression and disordered sleep in chronic post-SARS syndrome; a case-controlled study
    Maybe this time it's too big and personal to dismiss as mass hysteria. Maybe not. I expect no serious research to be done on this unless forced to by people screaming at authorities to do their damn job. But maybe if it hits the right people it will lead to a few epiphanies.
     
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