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The micro-clot finding in Long Covid — implications for the possible aetiology of ME/CFS

Discussion in 'Blood (e.g. coagulation, cell stiffness)' started by SNT Gatchaman, Nov 2, 2021.

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Page 10 of 16
  1. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Going off topic a little.

    How the blood is stored can also present different outcomes.

    Most researchers observed a significant deterioration in cell deformability after 2 to 3 weeks of storage (see Table 1). At the same time, for several units, the stability of deformability was observed throughout storage (Barshtein et al., 2020b; Islamzada et al., 2020). There was also significant variability in the deformability of the red cells, both between different donors and between PRBC units. In addition, it was found that the preparation of the PRBC unit causes an alteration in the deformability of cells (Barshtein et al., 2020a).

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2021.722896/full
     
    Mij, Jun 12, 2022
    #181
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  2. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Mij, Jun 14, 2022
    #182
    Binkie4, Hutan, Wyva and 1 other person like this.
  3. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Mij, Jun 14, 2022
    #183
    hinterland, Binkie4, Hutan and 1 other person like this.
  4. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    What were the eligibility criteria that determined these treatments for M.E?
     
    Mij, Jun 14, 2022
    #184
    Arnie Pye and Wonko like this.
  5. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Being able to pay?
    And presumably testing their blood for microclots.
     
    Trish, Jun 14, 2022
    #185
    alktipping, Hutan, Mij and 1 other person like this.
  6. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    "full container of clots"? Wouldn't that have killed someone if they had that many clots?

    Are they really clots or something else?
     
    Mij, Jun 14, 2022
    #186
    TigerLilea, Lilas and Arnie Pye like this.
  7. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It doesn't make a lot of sense and I think it is a pity this sort of stuff is going around social media.
    Fibrinogen is the normal soluble protein that we all need to be healthy. Clots are the fibrin cleavage product. An apheresis machine designed to remove clots might well give you a pot of fibrin but goodness knows whether there was anything wrong beforehand. The clots are supposed to be microscopic anyway.
     
    Jonathan Edwards, Jun 14, 2022
    #187
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  8. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    Andy, Jul 11, 2022
    #188
    RedFox, Mij, MSEsperanza and 6 others like this.
  9. LarsSG

    LarsSG Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    LarsSG, Aug 11, 2022
    #189
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  10. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    To clarify, this will be on the BBC Radio 4 program Inside Science. It will be available on BBC Sounds after the program.
     
    Trish, Aug 11, 2022
    #190
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  11. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    A short piece with Kell and Pretorius snips, also someone introducing them who might have been Amy Proal or maybe not. Nothing very new or detailed. Pretorius said she did not think microclots caused symptoms. I think Kell said he thought they did. If they have found them in diabetes and rheumatoid the story is a bit confusing if so.
     
    Jonathan Edwards, Aug 11, 2022
    #191
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  12. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I think Pretorius said the microclots are a downstream effect of whatever is in the blood causing the disease, so in Long Covid it's the spike protein, in ME/CFS and other diseases the microclots are found in, it will be something else.

    They explained that the microclots are different from the sort of clots that cuase DVT etc, they are much smaller, and can reduce blood flow in tissues in the organs affected. Kell suggested this could explain the symptoms of ME/CFS like brain fog and muscle fatigue.

    Even if this doesn't turn out to be the main cause of symptoms, it was very nice to hear Pretorius saying how badly pwME have been treated and that it's not psychosomatic.
     
    Trish, Aug 11, 2022
    #192
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  13. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Trish, Aug 11, 2022
    #193
    sebaaa, EzzieD, Louie41 and 11 others like this.
  14. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Trish, Aug 11, 2022
    #194
    Louie41, Mij, RedFox and 7 others like this.
  15. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Trish, Aug 11, 2022
    #195
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  16. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    SNT Gatchaman, Aug 12, 2022
    #196
    livinglighter, Peter Trewhitt, Hutan and 1 other person like this.
  17. RedFox

    RedFox Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Transcription of Resia Pretorius's soundbite that Adam posted, for those of you who find reading easier:
    (She's talking about ME/CFS)
     
    RedFox, Aug 12, 2022
    #197
    Solstice, Keela Too, Binkie4 and 10 others like this.
  18. JemPD

    JemPD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    does anyone know how (techinically speaking), i might copy/save that clip that @Adam pwme shared on twitter above, so that i can post it on facebook, please. Goodness there is someone i can tag that i need to hear that statement!
     
    JemPD, Aug 12, 2022
    #198
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  19. Adam pwme

    Adam pwme Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I've uploaded it here for you

    https://gofile.io/d/zqE84C
     
    Adam pwme, Aug 12, 2022
    #199
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  20. JemPD

    JemPD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    gosh Adam thats massively helpful, thank you so much! :):hug:
     
    JemPD, Aug 12, 2022
    #200
    Binkie4, Hutan, Adam pwme and 2 others like this.
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