They're part of Prudential. I had to take life insurance when I bought my house, and I (sadly) receive their magazine every now and then.

You get discounts on your health insurance if you get annual check-ups, record all your food and use a step counter to track activity (all of which they see to adjudicate how 'good' you are).
Oh wow that's seriously invasive.

There was a pretty big controversy a few years ago here in Quebec after an insurer offered rebates to drivers who installed a monitor that checked for erratic driving and other risky behavior. It only recorded driving speed, breaking and such. And even that was considered excessively invasive and few opted for it.

Recording all your food, using step counters and giving that information to insurers? Wow that would not fly here at all.

But, yet again, we see the involvement of insurers into efforts that are specifically built to save them billions. I have no idea why that corrosive influence is allowed and unchallenged, it is as toxic, if not more, than the influence of pharmaceuticals.
 
They're part of Prudential.
Hi there, vitality 360 are not part of the Pru, but contracted to them (unless the Pru did buy them, which I doubt for commercial reasons but haven't rechecked).

Other insurers also contracted v360 too and some also mentioned them in their own press releases and marketing/comms to policy holders, including for employers' bulk policies offered as benefits for employees e.g. medium/long term disability insurance.

My detailed and specific understanding is that the industry now actively manages who they 'encourage' into such programmes. If they smell a beneficiary's/patient's awareness of the actual definition of 'evidence based treatments' in ME, many insurers will now not take the risk (their risk, not the beneficiary's...). If there is ignorance on the patient's part (common due to the reasonable expectation of outsourcing knowledge to medical norms), some insurers will still very strongly offer such services (at least until 9 months ago). This depends on the individual insurer's awareness of the separate legal and ongoing claim risks from harm.
 
Oh wow that's seriously invasive.

There was a pretty big controversy a few years ago here in Quebec after an insurer offered rebates to drivers who installed a monitor that checked for erratic driving and other risky behavior. It only recorded driving speed, breaking and such. And even that was considered excessively invasive and few opted for it.

Recording all your food, using step counters and giving that information to insurers? Wow that would not fly here at all.

But, yet again, we see the involvement of insurers into efforts that are specifically built to save them billions. I have no idea why that corrosive influence is allowed and unchallenged, it is as toxic, if not more, than the influence of pharmaceuticals.
I mean, you earn points by doing so, and get discounted gym membership! Who doesn't want to give all that data for cheaper gyms?!
Hi there, vitality 360 are not part of the Pru, but contracted to them (unless the Pru did buy them, which I doubt for commercial reasons but haven't rechecked).

Other insurers also contracted v360 too and some also mentioned them in their own press releases and marketing/comms to policy holders, including for employers' bulk policies offered as benefits for employees e.g. medium/long term disability insurance.
Sounds about right.
My detailed and specific understanding is that the industry now actively manages who they 'encourage' into such programmes. If they smell a beneficiary's/patient's awareness of the actual definition of 'evidence based treatments' in ME, many insurers will now not take the risk (their risk, not the beneficiary's...). If there is ignorance on the patient's part (common due to the reasonable expectation of outsourcing knowledge to medical norms), some insurers will still very strongly offer such services (at least until 9 months ago). This depends on the individual insurer's awareness of the separate legal and ongoing claim risks from harm.
Do you mean they won't insure you if you have ME, or they'll stop telling you to exercise if you know about the harmful effects of GET in advance?
 
Do you mean they won't insure you if you have ME, or they'll stop telling you to exercise if you know about the harmful effects of GET in advance?

Sorry, I was ambiguous. I meant that it is now increasingly possible (not definite or even clear how likely) that an insurer will rapidly pull back from pushing BPS rubbish or stop telling you to get exercise eventually. Some will still push you towards Vitality 360 or other quackery, or look for it on medical records for the purposes of claim management.

It's an evolving mixture of awareness and opportunism, governed by how enlightened an insurer's own self-interest is. Their advisors and claims management nurses are medical professionals and not scientific professionals, hence captives of the ME specific digression medicine has take away from science.

What are the variables that determine the insurer's approach?
  1. Ostensibly, NICE guidance was the legal cover for pushing in the UK. But given that recentish NICE clarification that patient choice exists and that the clarification came in the context of the NICE review, pushing 2007 guidance hard against someone's will is problematic. This pro-pwme point was always legally makeable, just simpler now and the implications more immediate.
  2. The medics involved and on the beneficiary's medical records. Some are more likely to be medics an insurer would prefer not to mess with in a legal setting, in extremis. This is also important to avoid public precedent.....
  3. How clearly the patient is aware of the science Vs medical norms. And how legally informed they appear - this in particular is a 'smell test'. The implications are similar to pt 2
  4. To what extent a specific insurer has internal momentum/careers that still negatively influence trajectory Vs ME.
These are all in the context of each other, and don't actually paint a rosy picture, as they assume a lot... Most people will not line up that well on the middle two points until later in their illness, if ever. It's just a different version of nasty, with some glimmers of hope being injected in by context.

Bear in mind I'm referring to the claim management stage. Determining actual cover is at the application stage and is policy applicant/holder specific.
  • If the applicant and policy holder is the beneficiary, it is individually underwritten for a person or persons.
  • If the policy holder is an employer, it is underwritten for a group, a statistical sample, and not individually.

It also depends which policy. It many countries to exclude ME explicitly from some form of disability insurance would likely be unlawfully discriminatory. But critical illness insurance, for example, is largely based on inclusions with exceptions instead. And ME is very specifically not included normally.

Apologies for typos and logic burps. I can correct if anyone sees something weird
 
Sorry, I was ambiguous. I meant that it is now increasingly possible (not definite or even clear how likely) that an insurer will rapidly pull back from pushing BPS rubbish or stop telling you to get exercise eventually. Some will still push you towards Vitality 360 or other quackery, or look for it on medical records for the purposes of claim management.

It's an evolving mixture of awareness and opportunism, governed by how enlightened an insurer's own self-interest is. Their advisors and claims management nurses are medical professionals and not scientific professionals, hence captives of the ME specific digression medicine has take away from science.

What are the variables that determine the insurer's approach?
  1. Ostensibly, NICE guidance was the legal cover for pushing in the UK. But given that recentish NICE clarification that patient choice exists and that the clarification came in the context of the NICE review, pushing 2007 guidance hard against someone's will is problematic. This pro-pwme point was always legally makeable, just simpler now and the implications more immediate.
  2. The medics involved and on the beneficiary's medical records. Some are more likely to be medics an insurer would prefer not to mess with in a legal setting, in extremis. This is also important to avoid public precedent.....
  3. How clearly the patient is aware of the science Vs medical norms. And how legally informed they appear - this in particular is a 'smell test'. The implications are similar to pt 2
  4. To what extent a specific insurer has internal momentum/careers that still negatively influence trajectory Vs ME.
These are all in the context of each other, and don't actually paint a rosy picture, as they assume a lot... Most people will not line up that well on the middle two points until later in their illness, if ever. It's just a different version of nasty, with some glimmers of hope being injected in by context.

Bear in mind I'm referring to the claim management stage. Determining actual cover is at the application stage and is policy applicant/holder specific.
  • If the applicant and policy holder is the beneficiary, it is individually underwritten for a person or persons.
  • If the policy holder is an employer, it is underwritten for a group, a statistical sample, and not individually.

It also depends which policy. It many countries to exclude ME explicitly from some form of disability insurance would likely be unlawfully discriminatory. But critical illness insurance, for example, is largely based on inclusions with exceptions instead. And ME is very specifically not included normally.

Apologies for typos and logic burps. I can correct if anyone sees something weird
Gotcha. That makes perfect sense. Hopefully the new guideline will help with this, too.
 
People are already doing it. Its called facebook.
Ha! Yeah, well that was before Facebook became really huge. It was already growing fast but mostly with young people. Given how much people now willingly share for no actual reason, maybe it wouldn't even be that controversial today.

I'm sure Facebook already sells this data to insurers anyway so it's just the same in the end. Which is also why I deleted my Facebook account years ago.

It will be weird getting back to normal life. Most people will have generated a serious amount of data by simply existing. In our cases it will be mostly a black hole of no information, as if we had dropped out of society (ha! as if) entirely and had simply gone missing all those years. "How did you not exist for all those years?!" will be quite the puzzle.

Which actually makes me think that this is likely a good way to identify the chronically ill, but that would take extremely invasive mass of personal information. Probably something that invasive surveillance societies can already do...
 
Way too much emphasis on fatigue. This will confuse a lot of people unnecessarily. I completely dismissed CFS for years because of this, the obsession with fatigue at the exclusion of everything else is rank incompetence. In fact I see a lot of comments from longish-term COVID patients reflecting exactly on this, to the effect of: when does the post-viral fatigue kick in? Not realizing that PVFS means you just remain ill, rather than it being a different phase, and how it doesn't explain the 90%+ of the rest of the disease and all the damn neurological symptoms and pain.

Not sure why they even bothered, much better advice has already been published and this organization has no credibility outside of the BPS circle jerk. Could be worse, even better would be to just stay home and leave things to people who are willing and able to help.
 
so relieved that it didn't recommend GET or CBT or talk about deconditioning or anxiety
Gradually increase these activities in a similar way to physical activities.
SLOWLY INCREASE ACTIVITY:
Often people try and increase their activity
levels too quickly and so have a setback. If in doubt, go more slowly but steadily.
When working with people living with long-term fatigue, activity might only be
increased every couple of weeks.
Resume exercise SLOWLY, wait to see how your body reacts, then increase very gradually.

interesting that this is what they say for 'post-viral fatigue' and yet when it comes to 'Chronic fatigue' the increase is 20% a week.

ACCEPTANCE:
Whilst it isn’t always easy, trying to accept that the fatigue is real and needs managing
is the most helpful way to approach it. If you accept that life will need to change for now, then it is more likely that other people around you will see that as well and support you with it. Many other health problems require a longer period of recovery (sometimes called convalescence) and post-viral fatigue will take time to improve, sometimes taking many months.
THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS:
It is common for fatigue to affect how you are
thinking and feeling, including increased anxiety, frustration, irritability, guilt, and low
mood. It is helpful to acknowledge that it is a challenging time for you and those
around you. Your mind and body work together so looking after your emotional
wellbeing is also important for healing and recovery.

rings a bell.......

"Professor Trudie Chalder is researching into what we can we learn from acceptance and commitment therapy in relation to COVID-19."
https://www.s4me.info/threads/covid-19-psychological-research-and-treatment.14419/page-3#post-260454
 
This conference was cancelled.
Probably just as well given the apparent about turn (see BACME statement).

I only just found this:
https://vrassociationuk.com/resources/demystifying-cfs-jessica-bavinton-vitality360/
recording only available for members.

It's a webinar Jessica Bavinton did for the VRA in 2015.
It was discussed on PR and there is a link to an unofficial recording.
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...nton-recording-of-october-2015-webinar.50119/

the link is:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjwqnhxufqn2uvo/Bavinton VRA webinar.flv?dl=0

I'm only half way through; after selling the virtues of GET, the slide at around 29m shows the things that are not recommended;
upload_2020-10-27_9-31-48.png

so what is BACMEs position on this now I wonder?

eta: at the time of this webinar JB was vice-chair of BACME, I don't know what her position in BACME is now.
eta2: note Lightning Process is on the list.
eta3: haha just spotted it actually says 'lightening process'........bleach anyone?
 
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