Trudie Chalder, BPS and MUS proponent - presentations, interviews and news

From the transcript (T. Chalder):
I just wanted to start off with, well not right at the very beginning, but the beginning where I thought it took some importance which was working with Professor Isaac Marks who was a psychiatrist, a specialist in cognitive behavioural therapy. And I think to him I owe quite a lot because he set me on my path and really taught me to think very clearly about research and clinical work.
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Chalder did a trial with I. Marks and Wessely on cognitive behavior therapy for chronic fatigue syndrome (1997):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9054791

see also:
https://www.s4me.info/threads/plans-to-ban-gay-conversion-therapy-uk.4857/page-2#post-87373

I am not sure whether Isaac Marks or one of his scholars commented later on his involvement in 'conversion' therapies.

Does anyone know: Did he apologize or did any of his scholars distance themselves from Isaac Marks' involvement in the psychologization of homosexuality?
 
MSEsperanza said:
From the transcript (T. Chalder):


Chalder did a trial with I. Marks and Wessely on cognitive behavior therapy for chronic fatigue syndrome (1997):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9054791

see also:
https://www.s4me.info/threads/plans-to-ban-gay-conversion-therapy-uk.4857/page-2#post-87373

I am not sure whether Isaac Marks or one of his scholars commented later on his involvement in 'conversion' therapies.

Does anyone know: Did he apologize or did any of his scholars distance themselves from Isaac Marks' involvement in the psychologization of homosexuality?
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Not that I'm aware of. It was sort of glossed over.
 
“with this post, exertional fatigue and Trudie, I think we'd be really welcome your advice really on?”

Trudie
“I'd want to ask, first of all, you know, what was going on in her life around the onset of the pandemic? Because obviously, she she got this virus right at the start at the beginning of April. So I'd be interested to because you say that she's a stay at home mom, she's got two young children. I don't know how old the children are. Did you say?”

“I wonder whether it's anything else been going on in her life at the time of the pandemic? A little bit about who's ever had anything like this before? Whether she's ever had a history of fatigue or somatic symptoms, or indeed anxiety? Because she sounds a little quite health anxious. And what what expectations did she have of herself because it from what do you set, I can't remember which, but it there was something that you said that made me think she's a lady who has high expectations of herself.”
 
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“But given that she went for the walking test and then spent two weeks in bed, she's clearly I mean, thats quite an extreme behavioural response? That isn't it so, and it sounds like she's very, very health anxious.”

“If you can't do a 10 minute walk every day, do a five minute walk every day. But after you've done the five minute walk every day, you can increase it to 10 minutes, and then you can increase it the following week to 15 minutes.”
 
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I decided to skip through looking for Chalder's misleading presentation of results from Candy 2005, and predictably found it:

upload_2021-5-11_15-11-41.png

Chalder still promoting that Candy study with a graph that stops early.

Years ago Purple made a graph featuring all the data, showing no significant difference at 12 months:

index.php


More information on further problems with that study here:

https://www.s4me.info/threads/2003-...in-infectious-mononucleosis.8644/#post-152392

The relevant section of @Baissac's autotranscript of Chalder's talk:

So interestingly, it, it begs the question as to whether we can prevent fatigue after infections and some years ago with Brigitte candy, who was a research nurse at the time working with us and Matthew hot off, and various other people. We tested the idea that hypothesis that a very brief intervention which included one face to face appointment with the patient when they had a definite diagnosis of EBV. Plus two subsequent telephone calls, which were quite brief, delivered by the research nurse, which was project candy, and this was delivered shortly after the onset of the glandular fever. We hypothesise that this would reduce fatigue symptoms at six months. And the information that we discussed with the patient or the content of the sessions was reinforced with a booklet. in that conversation, Bridget really concentrated very much on lifestyle management. So some advice about returning to work as soon as possible. But bearing in mind that had a nasty infection, and not to go sort of training for the marathon, particularly, they'd never been out on the treadmill before, you know, some sensible advice about not doing too much too soon. But also emphasising the importance of trying to get back into some activity, and then very gradually increasing it. Now, many of these people were young people, it's a young, young person's disease, that's probably why it's called the kissing disease. And people also were given some advice about the importance of a sleep routine, as many of these young people were kind of burning the candle at both ends. So it was sensible advice. And what we found is that, as you can see here is that at six months, those people who got the intervention from the research nurse who wasn't a trained therapist, by the way, that they were less fatigued at follow up. You can see there's a deaf, it took a little while for that separation to occur, sort of suggesting that there was a bit of a delay between the time being given the information and the time that the information really had an impact.
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Question

“everything you're saying truly is kind of our experiences, I just feel slightly guilty about that patient who was mentioned that I clearly pushed too hard on the walking test. And I think the difficult thing about walking tests, where we haven't had this issue before is that usually it's limited by people's breathlessness and they can feel that right away. Whereas when they're limited by fatigue, they maybe don't feel that until the next day or the day after that. And we're very mindful to ask people to stop when they think they're in their limits.”

Trudies response.

“I don't think you should blame yourself for that. Because I think that's not just what it's not what you did that that resulted in the person being in bed for two weeks, you have to remember that the way in which any of us respond to symptoms that that what we're experiencing, is all that behavioural response is going to be influenced by our thoughts and our feelings too. And that people were, you know, the when people have a huge worry about the symptoms they're experiencing, it is going to affect them behaviour, you know, they may, they may actually behave really respond in a way that isn't necessarily helpful.“
 
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“Yeah, I've just put in the chat about obviously, there's quite a bit of anxiety from the chronic fatigue syndrome and me community, particularly on Twitter and things about doing graded exercise therapy and rehab. So I was just wondering, what are the techniques people use for people who are having these real issues with fatigue after either a rehab assessment or class and I think Enya might chip in to say, I don't think that's generally been our experience today to the people that have come to the rehab classes.”

Trudie

“I mean, I think the first thing to say is that there's an awful lot of Twitter particularly in engendering fears and concerns in people who are going to be a bit anxious about their health after they've had a nasty virus. So but I think I would always say start with where the patients aren't. Even if it's starting with walking, you can always progress it to something a little bit more, you know, more demanding as time goes on. So the for the very, you know, the people who push themselves to the limit. And the people who are overdue as and try to go for gold who quickly, I think it is important, somebody mentioned that you might want them to do slightly less in order to be consistent. It's a bit like not, you know, read the running, if you just go out for a run or a big walk on a Saturday, Sunday, which is what the lady did that was presented, but have not done any prepared work for that leading up to that big walk is it's not going to work.

“I would say the exercise clearly is not damaging to people. And I always say that the harm done to your head to one's health or the the lack of benefits or health is far that's far worse than any advice. You know, the advantages of exercise far outweigh the disadvantages as that makes sense. As long as you start at a level teachable. Yeah. What you've all been saying, you know, you rehab people. You've been saying this all along? I'm sure. You know, I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here.”
 
Adam pwme said:
Trudies response.

“I don't think you should blame yourself for that. Because I think that's not just what it's not what you did that that resulted in the person being in bed for two weeks, you have to remember that the way in which any of us respond to symptoms that that what we're experiencing, is all that behavioural response is going to be influenced by our thoughts and our feelings too. And that people were, you know, the when people have a huge worry about the symptoms they're experiencing, it is going to affect them behaviour, you know, they may, they may actually behave really respond in a way that isn't necessarily helpful.“
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Good to see Prof Chalder has really got her head around the concept of PEM and is so open to listening to the patient experience. (sarcasm alert)

How on earth can someone with years of working in this field have so little respect for the people she is working with, and with no relevant evidence draw conclusions that so insult the patient’s own insight? I struggled to read all of this, but was she actually suggesting being a stay at home mother is prima facie evidence for somatisation?

[cross posted with @Trish ’s comment above]
 
This is barely coherent. Maybe it's the transcript but yeah like Adam said this is a word salad as she clearly avoids saying what she means and it comes out completely garbled.

The comparison is only on clarity but it reminds me of how gangsters speak in code. It's not meant to make sense unless you understand what they mean. Or especially when you know what she actually means.

It's the indifference of others that is infuriating. It's so obvious that they know absolutely nothing about us, everything is just platitudes and cheap aphorisms that don't even apply, like some guru who only speaks in song lyrics or fortune cookies.

Good grief people start caring about your job because it really shows when you don't.
 
Only just came across this organisation:
Positive.org

from their website:
The Positive Approach
Positive was set up in 2011 with the vision of using research in psychology and neuroscience to help individuals and organisations optimise their wellbeing and performance. Focusing on positive, sustainable change, we equip individuals and teams with practical skills that enable them to improve and maintain their psychological health and performance.

Positive started out in the business world before expanding into the education sector in 2016. Since then we have continued to grow and we now work with schools and universities across the UK, as well as public and private sector organisations both nationally and internationally.
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What we do…
Positive’s primary aim is prevention. Combining the science behind psychological wellbeing with a range of evidence-based tools and techniques we seek to raise awareness of the risk and protective factors linked with psychological health. We believe that all organisations and educational establishments can make positive, protective changes to their culture and practices to promote optimal psychological health.

What we don’t do…
Our programmes are designed to help people understand how to develop healthy, protective habits to promote good psychological wellbeing. We do not provide clinical support or interventions for people experiencing psychological health difficulties. We aim to raise awareness and emotional literacy but we do not aim to offer treatment. We therefore ask the organisations we work with to make clear to staff and students where they can access support if concerned about their own psychological health or that of someone else.

Duty of Care:

Our work is designed to increase awareness of moodstate and psychological wellbeing. For this reason, it may trigger concerns at either a personal or interpersonal level. For some people it can cause them to consider positive changes they can make in their lives, whilst for others it can raise their awareness that they need to seek further help and support for their psychological health. If you are concerned about the mental health of yourself or someone else you should seek the advice and support of the designated professional within your organisation as a matter of priority. If you experience, or are presented with someone experiencing, heightened levels of distress and/or suicidal ideation medical assistance (GP or A&E) should be sought as a matter of priority. Please see our FAQs page for a list of support websites and helplines.
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https://www.positivegroup.org/the-positive-approach/

The Team
The Scientific Advisory Board
Professor Trudie Chalder
https://www.positivegroup.org/the-team/
 
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