Trudie Chalder, BPS and MUS proponent - presentations, interviews and news

It's in the transcript of her speech above. She sings his praises.

ETA: Link here: https://www.s4me.info/threads/13-ma...journey-over-30-years.5576/page-3#post-152193

 

From the transcript (T. Chalder):

Chalder did a trial with I. Marks and Wessely on cognitive behavior therapy for chronic fatigue syndrome (1997):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9054791

see also:
https://www.s4me.info/threads/plans-to-ban-gay-conversion-therapy-uk.4857/page-2#post-87373

I am not sure whether Isaac Marks or one of his scholars commented later on his involvement in 'conversion' therapies.

Does anyone know: Did he apologize or did any of his scholars distance themselves from Isaac Marks' involvement in the psychologization of homosexuality?

 

Not that I'm aware of. It was sort of glossed over.

 

Merged thread
From the NHS Health Education England portal
https://portal.e-lfh.org.uk/

Fatigue in the Time of COVID-19 (Upload date 8th March 2021) Not sure when it was recorded.

https://gofile.io/d/hoaZG9

Some worrying content, I wasn't sure where to post. It’s a temporary file so not sure how long it will be up there.

 

Auto transcript

 

“with this post, exertional fatigue and Trudie, I think we'd be really welcome your advice really on?”

Trudie
“I'd want to ask, first of all, you know, what was going on in her life around the onset of the pandemic? Because obviously, she she got this virus right at the start at the beginning of April. So I'd be interested to because you say that she's a stay at home mom, she's got two young children. I don't know how old the children are. Did you say?”

“I wonder whether it's anything else been going on in her life at the time of the pandemic? A little bit about who's ever had anything like this before? Whether she's ever had a history of fatigue or somatic symptoms, or indeed anxiety? Because she sounds a little quite health anxious. And what what expectations did she have of herself because it from what do you set, I can't remember which, but it there was something that you said that made me think she's a lady who has high expectations of herself.”

 

“But given that she went for the walking test and then spent two weeks in bed, she's clearly I mean, thats quite an extreme behavioural response? That isn't it so, and it sounds like she's very, very health anxious.”

“If you can't do a 10 minute walk every day, do a five minute walk every day. But after you've done the five minute walk every day, you can increase it to 10 minutes, and then you can increase it the following week to 15 minutes.”

 

I decided to skip through looking for Chalder's misleading presentation of results from Candy 2005, and predictably found it:



Chalder still promoting that Candy study with a graph that stops early.

Years ago Purple made a graph featuring all the data, showing no significant difference at 12 months:



More information on further problems with that study here:

https://www.s4me.info/threads/2003-...in-infectious-mononucleosis.8644/#post-152392

The relevant section of @Baissac's autotranscript of Chalder's talk:

 

I feel as if I'd struggle to watch through another of these things. I'm so bored of this.

 

Question

“everything you're saying truly is kind of our experiences, I just feel slightly guilty about that patient who was mentioned that I clearly pushed too hard on the walking test. And I think the difficult thing about walking tests, where we haven't had this issue before is that usually it's limited by people's breathlessness and they can feel that right away. Whereas when they're limited by fatigue, they maybe don't feel that until the next day or the day after that. And we're very mindful to ask people to stop when they think they're in their limits.”

Trudies response.

“I don't think you should blame yourself for that. Because I think that's not just what it's not what you did that that resulted in the person being in bed for two weeks, you have to remember that the way in which any of us respond to symptoms that that what we're experiencing, is all that behavioural response is going to be influenced by our thoughts and our feelings too. And that people were, you know, the when people have a huge worry about the symptoms they're experiencing, it is going to affect them behaviour, you know, they may, they may actually behave really respond in a way that isn't necessarily helpful.“

 

If someone d/ld this, it could be worth posting somewhere that will last, just in case it ends up being useful?

 

“Yeah, I've just put in the chat about obviously, there's quite a bit of anxiety from the chronic fatigue syndrome and me community, particularly on Twitter and things about doing graded exercise therapy and rehab. So I was just wondering, what are the techniques people use for people who are having these real issues with fatigue after either a rehab assessment or class and I think Enya might chip in to say, I don't think that's generally been our experience today to the people that have come to the rehab classes.”

Trudie

“I mean, I think the first thing to say is that there's an awful lot of Twitter particularly in engendering fears and concerns in people who are going to be a bit anxious about their health after they've had a nasty virus. So but I think I would always say start with where the patients aren't. Even if it's starting with walking, you can always progress it to something a little bit more, you know, more demanding as time goes on. So the for the very, you know, the people who push themselves to the limit. And the people who are overdue as and try to go for gold who quickly, I think it is important, somebody mentioned that you might want them to do slightly less in order to be consistent. It's a bit like not, you know, read the running, if you just go out for a run or a big walk on a Saturday, Sunday, which is what the lady did that was presented, but have not done any prepared work for that leading up to that big walk is it's not going to work.

“I would say the exercise clearly is not damaging to people. And I always say that the harm done to your head to one's health or the the lack of benefits or health is far that's far worse than any advice. You know, the advantages of exercise far outweigh the disadvantages as that makes sense. As long as you start at a level teachable. Yeah. What you've all been saying, you know, you rehab people. You've been saying this all along? I'm sure. You know, I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here.”

 

Good to see Prof Chalder has really got her head around the concept of PEM and is so open to listening to the patient experience. (sarcasm alert)

How on earth can someone with years of working in this field have so little respect for the people she is working with, and with no relevant evidence draw conclusions that so insult the patient’s own insight? I struggled to read all of this, but was she actually suggesting being a stay at home mother is prima facie evidence for somatisation?

[cross posted with @Trish ’s comment above]

 

Or perhaps they're not clueless but quite the reverse and know exactly what they are doing.

 

I'm not sure tbh it just seems like random word salad.

 

This is barely coherent. Maybe it's the transcript but yeah like Adam said this is a word salad as she clearly avoids saying what she means and it comes out completely garbled.

The comparison is only on clarity but it reminds me of how gangsters speak in code. It's not meant to make sense unless you understand what they mean. Or especially when you know what she actually means.

It's the indifference of others that is infuriating. It's so obvious that they know absolutely nothing about us, everything is just platitudes and cheap aphorisms that don't even apply, like some guru who only speaks in song lyrics or fortune cookies.

Good grief people start caring about your job because it really shows when you don't.

 

So someone gets worse with your treatment but that is not any reason to rethink your treatment since it must be the patient that is at fault because you are right and no amount of evidence will change your mind.

 

Only just came across this organisation:
Positive.org

from their website:

https://www.positivegroup.org/the-positive-approach/

The Team
The Scientific Advisory Board
Professor Trudie Chalder
https://www.positivegroup.org/the-team/