Tjenesten og MEg | The health service and ME, Sintef FaFo

They consider the bio-psycho-social model to be a possible explanatory model for the maintenance of symptoms, but based on their own social science research (the social component of the model) they can only support hypotheses that social relationships between patients and services are of such a nature that they can have a disease-maintaining, and perhaps aggravating, effect.
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I also wonder about this section. I think it’s very ambiguous.

If we take «social relationship» to mean any aspects of the interaction between e.g. NAV and a patient, including the consequences of mandated treatments and measures, and the abuse and neglect, and we take «disease» to mean the totality of the patient’s health, then the statement is so vague that it doesn’t really mean anything.

But it could also be interpreted as saying that the patient’s ME/CFS could improve if NAV trusted them and didn’t abuse them. And that is a problematic claim because while some might be able to avoid deterioration due to repeated and/or excessive PEM caused by NAV, we really don’t have a foundation to support general statement regarding that avoiding PEM could improve your ME/CFS (i.e. not maintaining it to the same degree anymore).

If we take it even further, it could be interpreted as saying that if the patient just felt trusted etc. they would get better.

I understand that it’s a summary and that Kielland & Co might have said and intended something more specific and unproblematic. But the context of the meeting should make it obvious that we need precision if we want to avoid further harm to the patients.
 
Utsikt said:
I take plausible to mean that it is likely. How do you define it?
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That it seems reasonable. So one level up from possible, but not to the level of likely, basically? But also mainly about how someone hearing it would not have any immediate objections if they're not familiar with it.

Which is really what the ideologues are aiming for. And there is much more apt word for it: pseudoscience. They explicitly want explanations that sound like something a physician would know, using medical terms, even though they're just speculative nonsense.

Or maybe bullshit would be more apt, but in the context they are using it, they basically amount to the same thing.
 
I always took plausible to mean merely within the bounds of possible, not likely. But apparently the dictionary disagrees with me.
 
The report contains this diagram:

1751282799752.png

Can anyone find what number of persons that had experience of each of treatments in the graph?

I don't find those number anywhere in the report.

Edit: I note that this thread is older than the report I link to. So maybe this thread started about a previous version of the report.
 
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Liie said:
The report contains this diagram:

View attachment 26804

Can anyone find what number of persons that had experience of each of treatments in the graph?

I don't find those number anywhere in the report.

Edit: I note that this thread is older than the report I link to. So maybe this thread started about a previous version of the report.
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There is a source at the bottom of the next page (bidraget er hentet fra). Maybe there’s more info there?
 
The consistency with which the official treatments are always at the bottom, and the things they advise against at the top, really deserves a paper of its own. Maybe several papers. It's actually remarkable how well it holds up.

Just like all the papers and reports showing the disastrous state of the overall situation, the overwhelming misery, and how it entirely contrasts with the lies coming from health care services and physicians about how things are rather fine and there's no need to do anything. Both realities are represented, yet only one of those is true.

Reality has that ability to just continue existing even when people don't believe in it.
 
One of the researchers from Tjenesten og MEg - Anne Kielland - has written an article for the online magazine Agenda about symbolic violence from public services. She uses examples from her research on the treatment of ME patients.

Symbolsk vold i møte med offentlige tjenester

google translation Symbolic violence in the face of public services

- Many in the group experience being told that there is nothing wrong with them, that they are completely healthy, or that healthcare professionals do not believe in the ME diagnosis, even when this has been made by a specialist healthcare service. There are no public treatment options for the group, and they seem to fall between all the chairs in the available options.

They say that they are denied social security rights available to other groups with a similar drop in earning capacity, are required to try treatments that lack a scientific basis, and feel pressured to participate in research because they are afraid of NAV sanctions (Kielland & Melby, 2022).

The patients experience that their representations of reality are attributed to dysfunctional thought patterns, they are exposed to an underlying suspicion of hypochondria and fraudulent welfare exploitation, and they are regularly joked about in everyday speech.
 
Utsikt said:
She’s not mincing her words!
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And yet it's a simple factual description of where we are. Which is a sign of how catastrophic things are, when the most neutral sober discussion basically amounts to a horror story. Especially as this simple factual description is categorically rejected by everyone in authority, which is also why things got so bad that the most neutral factual description of events reads like a dystopian nightmare.
 
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