1. To read the 'News in Brief' post for w/c 9th Sept then click here.
    Dismiss Notice

Petition: Per Fink Should Not Spread Lies about ME at Columbia University!

Discussion in 'Petitions' started by Andy, Oct 5, 2018.

  1. Saffron

    Saffron Established Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    89
    Barry, Joh, Lisa108 and 10 others like this.
  2. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,707
    Likes Received:
    10,938
    Wow!!
     
    JaimeS, Barry, MEMarge and 1 other person like this.
  3. Saffron

    Saffron Established Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    89
    ACCME has an article on how CME credit providers should deal with controversial topics:
    https://www.accme.org/highlights/dealing-controversial-topics-your-cme-program

    An excerpt:
    CME providers need to develop activities that encourage free and rigorous scientific discourse — while ensuring that faculty do not advocate or promote unscientific treatments and that clinical care recommendations are based on established scientific consensus. When a CME activity includes information about an approach to diagnosis or treatment that is not generally accepted, it is allowable to facilitate debate and discussion about the approach, but it is not allowable to advocate for the test or treatment, or teach clinicians how or when to use it.
     
    JaimeS, Hutan, Joh and 6 others like this.
  4. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,187
    Likes Received:
    26,333
    That seems relevant. Thanks for pointing it out. Hope it's of use for those raising concern about this.
     
    JaimeS, Joh, Samuel and 2 others like this.
  5. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    22,779
    Location:
    Norway
    I assume this is a statement regarding Per Fink. Official statement signed by Ian Lipkin.


    Our studies of blood, cerebrospinal fluid, saliva and feces, using state-of-the-art methods that include microbial gene sequencing, metabolomics, proteomics, and immunological profiling, confirm that patients with ME/CFS have biological abnormalities that cannot be characterized as psychosomatic.

    Committees convened by the National Academies of Sciences, the National Institutes of Health, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have also concluded that ME/CFS is not a psychosomatic disorder.

    We are committed to actively investigating the causes of immunological and metabolic abnormalities in ME/CFS. Our hope is that this work will enable insights that lead to treatments.
     
    JaimeS, Chezboo, John Mac and 22 others like this.
  6. Andy

    Andy Committee Member & Outreach

    Messages:
    7,307
    Likes Received:
    53,988
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    Yeah, basically the important part is
     
    JaimeS, MEMarge, Binkie4 and 11 others like this.
  7. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,707
    Likes Received:
    10,938
    This is a positive statement. I feel thankful.
     
    JaimeS, Binkie4, Forbin and 6 others like this.
  8. obeat

    obeat Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    2,930
    Needs to be sent to the Reuters journalist, who wrote Cochrane article
     
    JaimeS, MEMarge, Binkie4 and 5 others like this.
  9. Andy

    Andy Committee Member & Outreach

    Messages:
    7,307
    Likes Received:
    53,988
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    MEMarge, Joh, andypants and 9 others like this.
  10. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,074
    Likes Received:
    6,357
    Location:
    Australia
    Whether or not ME/CFS is considered a psychosomatic disorder or not is irrelevant (by the researchers at Columbia). The problem with Fink is his comittment to poor quality science and use of authority to harm certain patients (KH).
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
    Sid, Milo, JaimeS and 5 others like this.
  11. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    14,028
    Even if ME/CFS was purely psychosomatic the BPS crowd are still behaving like arse clowns, and should still not be allowed anywhere near patients or advisory positions.

    Given their track record, I wouldn't trust these creeps to handle a wet tissue safely.
     
    JaimeS, rvallee, EzzieD and 5 others like this.
  12. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    22,779
    Location:
    Norway
    Statement from Aarhus University Hospital
    Danish research on functional disorders causes a stir in the USA

    The Danish consultant and professor, Per Fink, PhD, DMSc, has been invited to Columbia University in New York to share his knowledge on functional disorders at the conference "Healing 'unexplainable' pain: Advances in Multidisciplinary Integrated Psychosomatic Care".

    ...
    In Denmark, some individuals are against researchers' deviation from the classic distinction between physical and mental illness while trying to examine illness and treatment in a broad and multifactorial or bio-psycho-social approach. This resistance is an international phenomenon and in The States, some of the opponents have formed groups calling themselves 'patient activists'. A group of activists has taken initiative to a petition against Per Fink's active participation in the conference in New York. However, the organizers of the Columbia University conference have resisted this attempt to restrict the academic free discussion.
     
    JaimeS, EzzieD, ladycatlover and 8 others like this.
  13. andypants

    andypants Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,143
    Likes Received:
    10,061
    Location:
    Norway
    Well, that was as expected – one-sided and totally missing the point.
     
    JaimeS, EzzieD, ladycatlover and 10 others like this.
  14. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,187
    Likes Received:
    26,333
    It's the obvious, easy response from them. It would have been a lot of work to make it difficult for them to respond like this, and a lot of care to avoid the "some individuals are against researchers' deviation from the classic distinction between physical and mental illness" stuff.
     
    JaimeS, ladycatlover, Sean and 4 others like this.
  15. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,236
    Likes Received:
    54,255
    I like the way this indicates that whoever wrote it has no clue.

    Surely we should applaud resistance to deviation?
    And wasn't it the other people who called the patient activists?
    It reads like a robot compilation.
     
    JaimeS, EzzieD, ladycatlover and 8 others like this.
  16. large donner

    large donner Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,013
    Likes Received:
    8,383
    Sorry to say it but the petition was a stupid idea and this outcome played right into their hands and is inevitable. They will now try to give more controversial talks in high profile institutions just to troll us and will be aiming to have further "protests against academic freedom". Making a petition to demand that someone should not speak at a University is the height of stupidity. They will make more traction out of such demands than not speaking at a University at all.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2018
    Sid, EzzieD, Art Vandelay and 6 others like this.
  17. Andy

    Andy Committee Member & Outreach

    Messages:
    7,307
    Likes Received:
    53,988
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    ukxmrv, JaimeS, EzzieD and 10 others like this.
  18. Andy

    Andy Committee Member & Outreach

    Messages:
    7,307
    Likes Received:
    53,988
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    I disagree, our opposition needs to be shown somehow. The support of other scientists and establishment members shows that it's not just a case of patients being vexatious. And I think labelling it the height of stupidity is unnecessarily harsh.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2018
    Roy S, JaimeS, rvallee and 13 others like this.
  19. James Morris-Lent

    James Morris-Lent Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    505
    Likes Received:
    3,639
    Location:
    United States
    I mostly agree and it's really all about the word 'demand'. Replace that with 'Urge to reconsider due to grave ethical and scientific concerns' or something and that clears it up for me.

    I personally wouldn't care at all if he spoke at some stand-alone psychosomatic conference, but NY State granting continuing education credit for attendance is sort of an endorsement and this I think gives some grounds for petitions and whatnot.

    People should be using reason to try to get other people to see the problems; rather than attempting to exert power to enforce a viewpoint, which is toxic and counterproductive.

    I don't think it gives them much new to work with - it seems like they've been going on and on for a long time about 'being shut down by people who don't like our findings' or whatever. And they'd go with that even if the petition was totally reasonable.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2018
  20. Andy

    Andy Committee Member & Outreach

    Messages:
    7,307
    Likes Received:
    53,988
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    The reason that they are demanding he not speak is because what he will say will be harmful.

    Seems pretty clear from Dave Tuller
    http://www.virology.ws/2018/10/16/trial-by-error-per-fink-in-new-york/

    http://www.virology.ws/2018/10/16/trial-by-error-per-fink-in-new-york/

    and here he's in support of the protest - in fact the blog is a reminder about it.
    http://www.virology.ws/2018/10/19/trial-by-error-a-reminder-about-saturdays-columbia-protest/

    and David seems clear of his opinion of Fink, I think it's quite reasonable to demand that someone described thus be not allowed to speak.
    and
    http://www.virology.ws/2018/10/17/trial-by-error-the-psychosomatic-conferences-pathetic-response/
     
    ukxmrv, Roy S, Milo and 12 others like this.

Share This Page