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Petition: Per Fink Should Not Spread Lies about ME at Columbia University!

Discussion in 'Petitions' started by Andy, Oct 5, 2018.

  1. Andy

    Andy Committee Member & Outreach

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    https://my.meaction.net/petitions/per-fink-should-not-speak-at-columbia-university
     
  2. ScottTriGuy

    ScottTriGuy Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  3. James Morris-Lent

    James Morris-Lent Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I disagree with this demand.

    I'm all for raising concerns about the quality of his work to the people in charge of overseeing the conference, or possibly going to the conference to offer criticism; but it's inappropriate to demand that an academic institution 'de-platform' a speaker. To me this makes us look like the bad guys trying to silence opposing viewpoints, and allows him to play the silenced victim card.
     
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  4. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It probably would have been better to call for Fink to not be left to speak unchallenged, and to ensure that his presentation is part of a debate, not a monologue.
     
  5. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Screw this, let him play his victim card and whine like a baby, if someone wants to hurt people our options are not just let them on "free speech" grounds or because we fear their wrath. If we want positive change we have to demand it. Not giving privilege to liars and reality deniers should be the minimum standard, not something we are scared of doing.
    All that evil needs to succeed is for good people to do nothing.
     
  6. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I agree you can’t shut down debate however unpalatable ..just argue for fair representation
     
  7. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Let him debate to an empty room. I am reminded of this comic
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I have signed this petition though I have mixed feelings about the idea blocking speakers at university events.

    Though free speech is important, we must also draw the line at actions that cause real harm to people. Also the BPS crew have consistently ignored and attempted to suppress views that they disagree with, be it in academic debate or the extreme of taking children into care or institutionalising adults. There is an enormous difference between refusing someone a platform at a conference and taking away someone's liberty and perhaps irreversibly destroying their health.

    We need to ask the question is the conduct of the BPS advocates such that they have lost the right to any courtesy or respect.
     
    LadyBirb, RuthT, Inara and 10 others like this.
  9. Gecko

    Gecko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Totally agree with @Alvin, and thought of the same cartoon.

    Silencing someone and not giving them a prestigious platform are two completely different things.

    He is literally teaching people to harm patients. How anyone can be against demanding that stops is beyond me.
     
  10. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I get what your saying but no one is advocating putting him in prison or physically harming him for these harmful views. I am saying he should not be pandered to.
    As your saying they already do far worse then we are advocating. Why can they do so much worse to us but we should not oppose a university hosting him?


    They harm patients which is a violation of their oath and human rights, they lock people up to inflict their damaging "treatments" against people's will, they silence critics, they deny the reality that is slapping them in the face, they use their power to invent lies and perpetuate them, they slander anyone who speaks the truth and they use any avenue they can find or invent to prevent progress and inflict harm on us, the medical system and anyone who dares not agree with them.

    Yet we are afraid to not give them special treatment?
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
  11. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Not just a liar, his actions have been criminal. He uses his soft-science to harm pwME and their families. An institution like Columbia University should know who they are putting on a pedestal. This is akin to them giving the pulpit to someone teaching conversion therapy for LGBT+. It's not science, it's ideology. Is the conference on philosophy or medical science?
     
  12. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Indeed, as i said i don't advocate harming him for his views but when one performs criminal activities then they have gone beyond the purview of free speech
     
  13. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Stop it, all you people, with your fair points on both sides. :confused: :rolleyes:

    I don't like suppressing speech, but equally don't like bad speech going unchallenged.

    Fink is pushing his legitimacy pretty seriously. At best he is being stubborn, reckless, and callous, to a degree totally unacceptable from a senior academic, clinician, and policy adviser.
     
  14. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't only have a problem with Per Fink, I have a problem with the premise of the whole conference. It seems it will be a BPS fest, with 'true believers' reinforcing each others' false beliefs in the BPS model and spreading the word. Oh dear.

    I'm not sure about the petition's narrow focus on Fink, dreadful though his ideas are. I'd like to see the whole conference challenged.

    We have a thread on the Conference here. The rest of the agenda looks just as bad.
     
  15. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Don't we have a bunch of ME literate researchers at Columbia?
     
  16. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    You most likely will not block him or even slow him down. You will raise talking points. Properly delivered we can benefit from talking points, but they may also be distorted by the audience. All psychobabble, which psychogenic medicine appears to be, should be opposed by scientists and academics who want rigorous research. Not all psychosomatic medicine probably qualifies as psychobabble, but probably most of it. We really need more scientists to attend these events. The people who need to attend this events are scientists qualified to make objections using evidence and reason.

    I would think an open letter to Columbia asking for independent scientists to attend, and maybe sent directly to a few, would be a better choice.

    I have not read the petition yet but hope to do it soon, then I will decide if I should sign it.
     
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  17. Skycloud

    Skycloud Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I have signed, because for me it's a protest and I'm all for objecting to Per Fink; it's my way of saying 'NO!'. Once again I'm signing a petition that I don't think will do any good.

    As I don't think this will work I think we need informed people there to show his dangerous nonsense for what it is.
     
  18. ladycatlover

    ladycatlover Moderator Staff Member

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    They missed a trick though! ;) Where's Creepy Crawley? ;)
     
  19. Skycloud

    Skycloud Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Alex has managed to write 2 comments while I was doing my one!

    Alex is right.
     
  20. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I’m not clear on what the context is? I think for me the issue is how influential is this conference...what will it lead to? It doesn’t seem to be specifically related to ME, rather a group of disturbed deluded individuals talking a load of crap to each other?

    The issue seems to be a wider one of the validity of psychosomatic conditions and quality of research?

    I’ve read the “demands” and they read poorly and a bit scatty and aimless, so I won’t sign this one ...mainly since it seems a bit pointless and overly pedantic/stroppy with no purpose in mind.
     
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