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Paul Garner on Long Covid and ME/CFS - BMJ articles and other media.

Discussion in 'Long Covid news' started by lycaena, May 5, 2020.

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  1. Chestnut tree

    Chestnut tree Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Chestnut tree, Apr 20, 2025
    #2401
    ukxmrv, MrMagoo, JellyBabyKid and 3 others like this.
  2. Chestnut tree

    Chestnut tree Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It did work for me.

    Edit: (Just to let @Utsikt know that the links works) so sorry it does not work for @MrMagoo
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2025
    Chestnut tree, Apr 20, 2025
    #2402
    Hutan, MrMagoo and Peter Trewhitt like this.
  3. Utsikt

    Utsikt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Weird, it works for me! Maybe you can use the translate function in your browser? I know chrome has one, and I just assume the others do as well.
     
    Utsikt, Apr 20, 2025
    #2403
    Hutan, MrMagoo and Peter Trewhitt like this.
  4. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Location:
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    Translation also works for me. It's a 2021 document. Here's a key bit:

    • "Prof. Garner fell ill in mid-March, and has been featured in at least 85 articles and TV interviews since then.
    • On October 5th he writes in a private email that he walks 5 km per day (new revelation)
    • On October 15th, he writes in a new private email that he has also started cycling (new revelation)
    • On October 30th, he tells the WHO press conference that he has been sick for 7 months.
    • On November 1, Dagbladet shares a video of Garner from the WHO, where his last words about Long Covid are: “it isn't in your head.”
    • On November 25th he is on a diving trip in Grenada , shares photos on FB and writes, among other things, “I needed the rest to be honest.” (new revelation)
    • On January 25th, a blog post is published in the BMJ where he claims to have thought himself cured of Long Covid and supposedly ME/CFS.

      It was in his head anyway, and like other LP activists, he seems to believe that then it must apply to everyone.

      Gone is the gratitude for the advice he received from ME patients about “pacing” at the beginning (activity adjustment). Advice that he had previously given helped him.

      Gone is also the gratitude for the support in FB groups. Instead, the patients are thrown under the bus, and the article appears to have been written following guidance from Recovery Norway.

      He also states that he contracted Dengue fever on the trip – a couple of months after he recovered. Which may indicate a very long vacation, as he considered himself sick on October 30 (cf. WHO), and was in Grenada 3 weeks later. So perhaps the vacation also contributed to his getting back on his feet? Together with the pacing at first? Because why else would he need more rest, if he was already healthy?"

    The time line is consistent with a natural recovery from a post-viral fatigue syndrome (which is definitely not to say that this wasn't also ME/CFS). PG's statements throughout that time are also consistent with that, with fluctuations in health but a trend of increasing activity. There is no need to invoke the magic of mind over matter - lots of people recover in the first year of a post-viral fatigue syndrome.
     
    Hutan, Apr 20, 2025
    #2404
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  5. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    Firefox has it.

    [EDIT: And Safari, in macOS.]
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2025 at 1:50 AM
    Sean, Apr 21, 2025
    #2405
    alktipping, MrMagoo and Peter Trewhitt like this.
  6. JellyBabyKid

    JellyBabyKid Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
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    Howard Schubiner mentions PG in this podcast

    https://open.spotify.com/episode/40CUczxOiNU869PxOqhkHZ?si=dg1iTGTkQ3WhSHc6xGDB0A

    He says that they are good friends and PG had a "click" moment, where he understood that his symptoms were mild-body, because sometimes he could cycle further and not feel too bad and some times he did less and felt worse. He concluded that PEM made no sense to him because it was so inconsistent, so the symptoms must be mind-body and he could therefore unlearn them. This is the classical conditioning/fear response paradigm for ME.

    This conversation sent me down an absolute rabbit hole to investigate mind-body symptoms, as discussed further on this thread: https://www.s4me.info/threads/brain...e-cfs-and-long-covid-discussion-thread.40713/
     
    JellyBabyKid, Apr 30, 2025
    #2406
    Sean, Starlight, Peter Trewhitt and 7 others like this.
  7. MrMagoo

    MrMagoo Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Amazing that he ever questioned whether it actually was PEM, given that it was so inconsistent for him and that more exercise didn’t induce it….
     
    MrMagoo, Apr 30, 2025
    #2407
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  8. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I always feel worse when I cycle further (I have a throttle driven ebike but can pedal a bit). I've been riding it for almost 15 years. If breaking a fear/response loop was going to work, it would have happened by now.

    It's so sad that he projects his own experiences onto everyone else.
     
    Snow Leopard, May 1, 2025
    #2408
    alktipping, ukxmrv, Trish and 9 others like this.
  9. MrMagoo

    MrMagoo Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Amen
     
    MrMagoo, May 1, 2025
    #2409
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  10. Adam pwme

    Adam pwme Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Adam pwme, May 17, 2025
    #2410
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  11. Turtle

    Turtle Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    150 pounds for garbage livestream?
     
    Turtle, May 17, 2025
    #2411
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  12. Utsikt

    Utsikt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Utsikt, May 17, 2025
    #2412
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  13. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Paul Garner is interviewed in an article about doctors and patient activists in the journal for the Finnish Medical Association.

    google translation: In the teeth of activists

    quote:
    What to do if you find yourself caught in the teeth of activism?

    Garner contacted the university and the police. They took the matter seriously. Interpol also got involved. Support also came from colleagues.

    – Stay strong. Get off social media. Ask for help from the organization and try to find support from others who have a similar view. The goal is to isolate the person from the group and silence them. Don't care about them. Stick to your message and continue communicating.
     
    Kalliope, May 17, 2025
    #2413
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  14. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    What does SIRPA stand for?

    Seems like the wackiest group of quacks in the pond.
     
    Jonathan Edwards, May 17, 2025
    #2414
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  15. Yann04

    Yann04 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I wonder how self aware he is?

    But the tendency to capitalise words to add emphasis reads to me as unprofessional and earily reminds me of the social media posts of a specific US elected politician.
     
    Yann04, May 17, 2025
    #2415
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  16. Utsikt

    Utsikt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    His hero complex is showing.
     
    Utsikt, May 17, 2025
    #2416
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  17. Utsikt

    Utsikt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Based on the article by @Kalliope above, he is in a war with activists that are trying to silence him.
     
    Utsikt, May 17, 2025
    #2417
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  18. InitialConditions

    InitialConditions Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Stress Illness Recovery Practitioners’ Association

    They seem to be disciples of John Sarno, one of the first mind–body guys, who invented a new illness called tension myositis syndrome (TMS).
     
    InitialConditions, May 17, 2025
    #2418
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  19. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I am reasonably hopeful that Simon Wessely would rather hide away somewhere and pretend this wasn't happening.

    I get this feeling that if you listen carefully at the back in this conference you will hear a low hum of marbles rolling out the back entrance.
     
    Jonathan Edwards, May 17, 2025
    #2419
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  20. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Ah, so straight down the line professional exorcists then?
    With diplomas in neuroplastic folders.
     
    Jonathan Edwards, May 17, 2025
    #2420
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