InitialConditions
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Correct. I've pointed out on Twitter other ways in which Sharpe and co have subsequently tried to recast what PACE was and who it was for:
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George Monbiot on ME/CFS, PACE, BPS and Long Covid
- Thread starter Robert 1973
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Correct. I've pointed out on Twitter other ways in which Sharpe and co have subsequently tried to recast what PACE was and who it was for:
Interesting few seconds in that Monbiot video, starting around 1:56.
Watch how both the clinicians are questioning the poor woman at the same time, in a bright lit room. Not sure, but the context seems to be straight after she has done some kind of physical exertion test?
Watch how both the clinicians are questioning the poor woman at the same time, in a bright lit room. Not sure, but the context seems to be straight after she has done some kind of physical exertion test?
InitialConditions
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I suspect this is part of a routine work-up in the long-Covid clinics. When I see these patients clasping at their chests and struggling to breathe, I imagine there is probably cardiovascular and/or respiratory damage/impairment, rather than ME-related exertional intolerance. But maybe these patients would meet ME/CFS criteria for different reasons? I'm afraid I feel this is going to get quite messy over next few years.
Jonathan Edwards
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Well, Monbiot should be getting his head around the stuff now. I recommended he looked at the Turner-Stokes and Busse debacle a day or two ago. Now Sharpe is piling on the irony. These are REAL experts it seems.
Barry
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
MS yet again highlighting instances where he shot himself in the foot and would be best forgotten, where he references "The PACE trial of treatments for chronic fatigue syndrome: a response to WILSHIRE et al" in https://rdcu.be/ciNLA ...
That response includes the now immortalised statement:
Which is as good an indication as it gets of scientists falling prey to expectation bias ... and in this case openly admitting to it, presumably because they don't even realise they are doing it. Pantomime science.
That response includes the now immortalised statement:
"We prefer the definitions of recovery we used to those used by Wilshire et al. as they give absolute rates more consistent both with the literature, and with our clinical experience"
Which is as good an indication as it gets of scientists falling prey to expectation bias ... and in this case openly admitting to it, presumably because they don't even realise they are doing it. Pantomime science.
Barry
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
MS seems to have so little inkling of the psychology of what he is playing with. Over the years they have lambasted so-called activists for harassing scientists investigating ME/CFS, refuting all assertions that they are in fact simply mud-slinging at anyone who seeks to disagree with their scientific findings. And they have of course been directing their ire towards @dave30th in the process. But they have, with much help from the SMC, managed to manipulate the British press to echo the mud-slinging, so reinforcing it.
Then along comes an influential British journalist, George Monbiot, no longer blinded by the BPS BS, and starts reporting as he finds, and doing a good, insightful and honest job of it. Now you would think it blindingly obvious that the very last thing MS would want to do would be to direct his mud-slinging towards Monbiot, because the only thing that would achieve would be to prove that the "activists" have been right all along, and that anyone daring to criticise Sharpe and Co then be come the target of a BPS mud slinging campaign. And of course Monbiot is the very last person Sharpe should be thinking of doing that to, because Monbiot, like Tuller, is well placed to expose the absurdity of what is happening. Except in this case British journalism generally might be more likely to sit up and take notice of a British journalist. And yet that is exactly what Sharpe does ... turn his mud slinging towards Monbiot! Insane.
Sharpe is clearly a very intelligent person, yet seems to commit the most stupid blunders. If it were not for all the harm he has brought upon others, I would feel sorry for him, because he seems to be self-harming to a significant degree. But I think mud-slinging is the only response they know, given that real scientific rebuttals elude them so much.
This is definitely how I feel. His behavior is hard to understand, and it is hard to understand why no one is reining him in.
rvallee
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I only noticed them because I know who they are and they find themselves in my twitter feed, but contrarian ideas have clearly been popular in medical circles. There's probably some overlap, some of the language over mental illness following lockdown are obviously Wessely, whether it's him or just his ideas. Especially the suicides, which has now been debunked. Oops.
rvallee
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
When you have no evidence, attack the process. If attacking the process doesn't work, attack people, in this case the victims. DARVO is all they have.
Kalliope
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Response from Sharpe in the Guardian:
- George Monbiot has written about post Covid-19 illnesses (Apparently just by talking about it, I’m super-spreading long Covid, 14 April). He referred to slides he had obtained from a talk I was invited to give because of my clinical expertise in this area. In my talk, I emphasised the need to listen to patients and assess them individually, as many different factors – biological, psychological and social – may be contributing to their illness.
- I also mentioned a possible role for rehabilitation to help patients with post-Covid fatigue. Mr Monbiot appears to be surprised that this could help, quoting criticisms of a decade-old study – the Pace trial – which found that gradual and supervised rehabilitation was helpful in chronic fatigue syndrome.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/16/analysing-long-covid-and-managing-anxiety
- George Monbiot has written about post Covid-19 illnesses (Apparently just by talking about it, I’m super-spreading long Covid, 14 April). He referred to slides he had obtained from a talk I was invited to give because of my clinical expertise in this area. In my talk, I emphasised the need to listen to patients and assess them individually, as many different factors – biological, psychological and social – may be contributing to their illness.
- I also mentioned a possible role for rehabilitation to help patients with post-Covid fatigue. Mr Monbiot appears to be surprised that this could help, quoting criticisms of a decade-old study – the Pace trial – which found that gradual and supervised rehabilitation was helpful in chronic fatigue syndrome.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/16/analysing-long-covid-and-managing-anxiety
He is being the fall guy for Wessley ?
rvallee
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Sharpe demanding the "right to respond" after having refused to comment on the article is peak Sharpe, which I'm sure the Guardian will oblige, or maybe BMJ. Utterly incapable of dealing with having to actually defend their position, they have been so used for decades to just say carelessly whatever they want and having their colleagues eat every up without even so much as a mildly challenging question. They are completely flustered by even basic questions.
I think it's safe to say that long haulers are now well-acquainted with our torturers and many understand they are facing the same. For example some are getting to know Esther Crawley and Trudie Chalder and are not impressed:
I think it's safe to say that long haulers are now well-acquainted with our torturers and many understand they are facing the same. For example some are getting to know Esther Crawley and Trudie Chalder and are not impressed:
rvallee
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Sharpe's response is vague and typical nonsense, always sidesteps the point. Garner only comes off as someone with actual difficulty managing emotions and who is too gullible to be a medical professional in any capacity.
Esther12
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Seems like more misrepresentation of the HRA from Sharpe: "The criticisms he lists have been investigated and refuted by both the Medical Research Council and the Health Research Authority."
Arnie Pye
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
So, Sharpe gets his right of reply but readers have no right to comment? Monbiot's article had comments enabled, Sharpe's article should have the same treatment.
Daisymay
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
What......anyone in the BPS brigade listening to patients, you must be joking!
Arnie Pye
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I often wonder what Sharpe would say to someone who accidentally came his way with appendicitis or hepatitis or a cracked femur. I just assume he would claim they were attention-seeking and mentally ill, because I simply can't imagine him ever accepting that someone could have a physical illness or injury, particularly if it was invisible.