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Erythrocyte Deformability As a Potential Biomarker for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Davis et al (2018)

Discussion in 'ME/CFS research' started by strategist, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    www.bloodjournal.org/content/132/Suppl_1/4874

    At the moment, the full article is not yet available.

    Edit: We have 3 threads on related or the same research by the same team:
    Erythrocyte Deformability As a Potential Biomarker for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Davis et al (2018)
    Altered Erythrocyte Biophysical Properties in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, 2019, Saha, Davis, et al
    Red blood cell deformability is diminished in patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Saha et al, 2019
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2022
    sb4, WillowJ, dangermouse and 40 others like this.
  2. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This was published in a "top journal" by the way. I am not sure whether that is good or bad. I'll take it as a sign that ME/CFS is getting a little more of the respect it deserves.
     
    WillowJ, dangermouse, inox and 9 others like this.
  3. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Since we're allowed to post complete abstracts, I've posted it here, broken into shorter paragraphs for easier reading.

     
  4. Jim001

    Jim001 Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Happy to see Ron Davis publishing
     
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  5. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    More to say on this one in this month's research roundup for sure! :)
     
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  6. InitialConditions

    InitialConditions Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It's nice to see an article in a top-tier journal. I'm not a journal snob, but I'm not a fan of the amount of ME/CFS papers in the 'Frontiers' journals...
     
  7. Jim001

    Jim001 Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm curious what sort of scenario might make it 'bad' to publish a finding of this sort in a top journal?
     
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  8. Simon M

    Simon M Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This looks very interesting, but I am eager to see the full text.

    The P values are astonishing low for such a small sample size (n = 9). For example:

    “ME/CFS patients had higher entry time (~12%, p<0.0001)”

    Normally, a mere 12% difference would not lead to such an extreme P value. This implies very low variance ( patient data clusters close together, and the same for control data). If that’s the case, then it could prove to be an excellent bio marker - if this replicates on a larger sample.

    But last time I heard Ron talk about this (which I think was before the Stanford symposium) he said they didn’t have clean separation and more work was needed – but that information might be out to date.

    Hope the journal posts full data soon.
     
  9. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The bit about ESR is also interesting. Low ESR has been said to be typical of ME/CFS. Others have disputed this.
     
  10. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Byron Hyde and others have mentioned ESR before too. 5 is considered the ideal 'low' ESR, I think I read. So 3 or lower would seem to support a diagnosis of ME, which is also what Hyde says.
     
  11. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    "Finally, preliminary studies show that RBCs from recovering ME/CFS patients do not show such differences in cellular physiology, suggesting a connection between RBC deformability and disease severity".

    I wonder what criteria points to 'severity'?
     
  12. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Mine tested at 2 several times.

    I read that findings reported in top journals are less likely to be replicated.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2023
  13. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    A few errors and oddities (at least to me).

    Well, I'll just wait it out then...

    Not that they impact on what they seem to have found but it doesn't look great.
     
  14. Philipp

    Philipp Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Regarding the ESR, did anyone notice differences testing that when PEMcrashed vs rested?
     
  15. BurnA

    BurnA Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I vaguely remember him talking about the size of the microfluidic device and saying he needed a different size.
    But again, I don't know if that was before or after this study.
     
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  16. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Not sure about that bit though. Several years?

    ETA: I see @Andy got there before me.
     
  17. BurnA

    BurnA Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is interesting.

    I wonder what a recovering patient is defined as - someone who was severe and now moderate or moderate and now mild or just any mild patient, or any patient who says they are better? Also wonder if recovering patients had no differences or just less differences.


    Also, this section refers to preliminary results, does that mean these results are not part of the n=9?

    Regardless, if they can link magnitude of differences to severity it would definitely be a good thing.
     
  18. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes, I thought that was interesting too.
     
  19. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Some of the original authors are ESL. Obviously someone should have been there to review the language, but this shouldn't affect the quality of the science.
     
  20. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I have, there was no difference.
     
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