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Article: Mystery illnesses are on the rise with women, whom doctors are dismissing as "nervous Nellies" Apr 2020

Discussion in 'General disability topics and advocacy' started by Sly Saint, Apr 8, 2020.

  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    "The Lady's Handbook for Her Mysterious Illness" author on the only recourse for ailing women who are being ignored
    https://www.salon.com/2020/04/07/ladys-handbook-for-her-mysterious-illness-sarah-ramey-book/
     
    Ravn, Simbindi, Joh and 11 others like this.
  2. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Ravn, DokaGirl, Arnie Pye and 3 others like this.
  3. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Maybe young people are flouting the rules more?
     
    Ravn, DokaGirl, Arnie Pye and 3 others like this.
  4. Cinders66

    Cinders66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Perhaps medicine should start insisting that before you label a persons symptoms as psychological they actually have to be able to prove that the person has psychological distress sufficient to explain their symptoms
     
    Lidia, Ravn, 2kidswithME and 14 others like this.
  5. MEMarge

    MEMarge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Great idea @Cinders66.
    BUT, they'd probably use a questionnaire asking things like:
    • Are you sad that you can't do the things you used to do?
    • Do you have difficulty getting to sleep?
    • Do you worry that you are not going to get better?
    • ........
    and other "useful" questions!
     
  6. unicorn7

    unicorn7 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That's the beauty of the psychological explanation. You can never prove it or disprove it, so it is always true.

    Who can determine what is "sufficient psychological distress"? If you would get any of these problems form psychological distress, wouldn't warzones be flooded with people with me/cfs?
     
    Ravn, 2kidswithME, Sarah94 and 15 others like this.
  7. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    Bloody cheek - one is not nervous at all.
     
    Lidia, Ravn, MEMarge and 10 others like this.
  8. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

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    What does a Nelly mean?
     
  9. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    nelly
    /ˈnɛli/


    noun
    noun: nelly; plural noun: nellies; noun: nellie
    1. 1.
      informal
      a silly person.
    2. 2.
      informal•offensive
      an effeminate homosexual man.
    Phrases
    not on your nelly — certainly not.
    "Charlie shook his head vigorously. ‘Not on your nelly, mate.’"
     
  10. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Also an elephant who packed her trunk and said goodbye to the circus...

    And an Inuit person colloquially referred to as Eskimo Nell...
     
  11. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I actually think "nervous nelly" is rather more polite than the thoughts that go through a lot of doctors' heads. I've had the experience of having a doctor shout at me to "Get out of my office! There's nothing wrong with you!" He was wrong, and although it is poorly written I have the evidence in my medical records. I made sure I never saw him again, but I doubt he left anything polite in my medical records.

    Edit : Grammar
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
    DigitalDrifter, ukxmrv, Ravn and 11 others like this.
  12. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    The reviews for
    are very good.

    I'm not sure about this from the Amazon blurb though:
    It makes it sound as though chronic illnesses are a relatively new thing. And of course having enough sleep, a good diet and social connections are important for health, and maybe making changes to these helped Sarah Ramey, but it will be annoying if it is suggested that these are part of the solution to ME/CFS.

    @RoseE, as you've read the book, what does Ms Ramey say about cause and treatments?
    Edit - actually the article linked in the first post discusses Ms Ramey's ideas on cause and treatment a bit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
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  13. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I haven't read the book but I have just read the article. I have to say I'm not very impressed.

    I appreciate it is one person telling her own experiences, and I don't judge her for that, and it's important to share the message about misdiagnosis of physical illness as psychological.

    But I wish people telling their stories would not make generalisations - like that it's a new illness, that it's all about women, that functional medicine has answers, that it's about the gut, that it's environmental - all these are assumptions and some of them are wrong.

    I have bought the book on my ereader and will report back if I manage to read it.
     
  14. RoseE

    RoseE Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    341
    Actually I haven't read the book. I was just reporting that another member of M.E. Awareness NZ had, and had organised the interview on the RNZ.
    With the forward notice of the interview we have a chance to prepare questions that might direct the interview - I understand that questions can be sent /texted in.
     
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  15. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    I listened to the NZ radio interview, and it was helpful to our cause.
    Here are some notes I made, but I expect it will be possible to listen to it.
    Sarah Ramey came across as a calm and reasonable advocate and the focus was on believing the people who have variations on the ME/CFS, POTS, IBS, CRPS theme.

    She feels the numbers of cases are increasing, arguing that there would have been more documentation if the number of people who are bed bound now had been around in previous times. I think that assumption is arguable.

    The interviewer was sympathetic throughout. She made the point of the double whammy - being sick and then not being believed. Sarah agreed, noting 'to be told you are a bad person by the people you have gone to for help is quite difficult'.

    Although the interviewer sometimes led with possible explanations such as an immune over-response and Sarah would somewhat agree, and added ideas about gut microflora, Sarah was clear that little is known. She specifically said that 'there has been very little funding for ME/CFS research'.

    An interesting anecdote was how, although a psychological explanation made no sense to her, she was open to the treatments in the beginning. She had been sad about her situation and the pain and was given medication for depression. She reported how the medication had made her suicidal; when she stopped the medication the suicidal ideation went away. It was a nice illustration of how the treatments can make things worse, potentially actually creating psychological problems to be added to the medical notes.

    She said it was 9 years and many doctor's appointments before a doctor actually commiserated with her, saying 'I'm so sorry that you have been through all this'.

    Sarah asks medical practitioners to educate themselves, especially with the prospect of more cases following the Covid-19 viral infections. She says the ME/CFS etc syndromes are still not being taught in medical schools, but you don't need to go to the fringes of medicine to find out about the research being done. She mentioned research in places like Stanford and Harvard. She asked doctors to read about the experiences of these patients. And the main ask was to listen to patients and believe them, and provide supportive care. To accompany patients on the journey for answers.

    In terms of things that have helped her, she mentioned the usual good food, sleep hygiene, stress management and LDN, but it was clear that she wasn't claiming these as cures. She classifies herself as 'moderate'.

    So, as I said, this was a helpful item. Thanks to whoever organised it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  16. Ravn

    Ravn Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Good summary @Hutan. It's available on-demand here:

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/prog...9885/sarah-ramey-women-with-a-mystery-illness

    Note that the ME link in the programme notes goes to M.E.Awareness.nz :thumbsup:
     
    Squeezy, rvallee, RoseE and 4 others like this.
  17. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    A blog post that I'd thought we'd seen previously from the same author (I searched but couldn't find it on the forum)
    https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2020/04/02/why-certain-illnesses-remain-mysterious/
     

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