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A general thread on the PACE trial!

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic research - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by Esther12, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. Sarah

    Sarah Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks very much for doing this, @Lucibee
     
    Joh, Barry, Invisible Woman and 3 others like this.
  2. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Would you speak there now, given its professed change of direction?
     
  3. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I really don't know. I'm also not a very good speaker!
     
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  4. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think this is unfortunately true.

    I have been lucky enough to gain a reputation. Not maybe the sort that gets you elected as president of cosy academic institutions, but I am regarded as maybe the most successful clinical researcher of my generation at UCL. People to whom Horton would defer, like Mark Walport or Keith Peters know that I do original high quality science and that when I speak my mind (as I tend to) I have good reasons. Up until now I have worked on the principle of responding to requests for comment. I think the time has come for me to be more proactive - if I do have some leverage I guess I ought to use it.

    I agree that the methods used so far have not yet lanced the boil, although in this situation I think every letter and email helps to erode misplaced confidence even if that is not obvious. The next step for a brick wall is either to creep round the side or drop a nuclear weapon. There are some plans afoot and of a fairly nuclear kind. But details will have to wait.
     
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  5. Indigophoton

    Indigophoton Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I've never before found the idea of the nuclear option so appealing...
     
  6. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The scientists' equivalent of Chinese whispers it almost seems.
    Absolutely. Putting their wrongdoings on public record is very 'laudable' of them; they will regret it in due course I suspect. Such an audit trail will prove essential and invaluable I think.
     
    Invisible Woman and Sean like this.
  7. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm sorry, I've lost the thread here. Which nuclear option are you referring to?
     
  8. Indigophoton

    Indigophoton Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Barry, the one Jonathan apparently has tucked up his sleeve,
     
  9. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thank you :oops:. In which case...
    ... it might be more relevant whether the PACE crew find the possibility of a nuclear option appealing or not. Depends what that option is I guess.
     
    MEMarge and Indigophoton like this.
  10. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Inara and Invisible Woman like this.
  11. Tom Kindlon

    Tom Kindlon Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  12. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm sure there is a joke in there somewhere.
     
    Invisible Woman, Barry and Trish like this.
  13. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    No idea if this has been posted somewhere.
    It is a letter submitted in 2015 from the Independent Commission of Freedom of Information call for Evidence (don't know what the outcome of this commission was?).
    It's on page 137 of 212 https://assets.publishing.service.g..._Evidence_Responses_from_individuals_A_-D.pdf

    The letter reads:
     
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  14. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Joh, Hutan, Woolie and 5 others like this.
  15. large donner

    large donner Guest

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    Ill go there and speak for you, I can winge the hind legs off a donkey but I am also a bit of a thickhead.

    Well the offer is there anyway if people want a car crash rant.
     
  16. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    What a strange interview. Sharpe looked down a lot, as though he was reading. And a strange reaction to the end - sort of co-conspiratorial? As though he were saying "Was that good enough?"

    Most unconvincing.
     
    Invisible Woman likes this.
  17. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    (Apologies if I put anyone off their tea. There are another two videos that I couldn't watch. :eek:)
     
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  18. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I know that there are some videos out there about what is wrong with PACE and they a very good and clear about the flaws but I'm wondering if maybe a similar styled video (talking head) answering questions that respond point by point to this video would be a really good investment.

    That is explaining for example how the 'rigourous' oversight failed. And a concise and cogent account of the mid trial changes the recovery threshold maybe with a brief powerpoint overlay.

    These things have been done as I said but I think that there is room for multiple ways of presenting the same important points. So in this case we'd need an 'authoritative' figure who calmly presents the other side of that story.

    If only we had more people outside of sick community members who could assist with this sort of thing.
     
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  19. large donner

    large donner Guest

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  20. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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