Trisha Greenhalgh on ME/CFS and Long Covid

[Jonathan Edwards]

How long are they going to keep getting away with this?

I suspect not too long.
In truth the fat lady sang a while back. These are the people who play a jolly tune while everyone is leaving the theatre.

 

[dave30th]

beyond what is glaringly obvious to any sensible person - i.e. wearing masks.

well, from the US perspective, that counts for a lot!

 

[Adrian]

Maybe there should be a prize fir speaking power to truth. Plenty of candidates around.

Didn't Wessley win that for bravely telling dangerous ME patients that CBT will make them better?

 

[dave30th]

Didn't Wessley win that for bravely telling dangerous ME patients that CBT will make them better?

Along with that, I think it also involved his related bravery involving Gulf War Illness.

 

[Sly Saint]

Clare Gerada
@ClareGerada
Sorry you have been ill for so long. the piece was on Covid - puzzled why its conflated with other chronic conditions.

you mean like your husband and his gang did/do on a regular basis when supposedly researching ME?
only a matter of time before long-covid is bundled into MUS or SSD.
https://www.s4me.info/threads/edito...sorder-2021-willis-chalder.18946/#post-321732

 

[Saz94]

the piece was on Covid - puzzled why its conflated with other chronic conditions.

This is like satire. Except it's real.

Truly boggles the mind.

 

[Tom Kindlon]

I woke up to some drama




The messy thing is that I'm blocked by her so she won't see my messages. I don't know if anyone wants to highlight my clarification to her

 

[Kalliope]

Not sure if this is the best thread or if this has been shared before, but a clever friend just found that Trisha Greenhalgh was first opponent at Henrik Vogt's dissertation. I thought that was interesting to know.

It says so on the university's (NTNU) website.
Original link in Norwegian
google translation

ETA: This was in 2017

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Not sure if this is the best thread or if this has been shared before, but a clever friend just found that Trisha Greenhalgh was first opponent at Henrik Vogt's dissertation. I thought that was interesting to know.

I may have said it before but this one you really could not make up.
What on earth does T Greenhalgh have to do with H Vogt in this universe? - clearly a naive question.
I actually find this hard to believe. Maybe there really are aliens.

 

[Ariel]

I may have said it before but this one you really could not make up.

I thought I was paranoid. This is a little over the edge for me. It's hard to believe, yes!

To be honest I find this development liberating. I'll throw away my conspiracy whiteboard now.

 

[Robert 1973]

More from Prof Greenhalgh:


This is the link to the Guardian article she criticised: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/05/nhs-long-covid-patients-after-pandemic

And today this:

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

I guess the doctor may have been under talking conditions anonymity because the government that love helpers like Dr Greenhalgh may have made it difficult to speak freely. The 1 million figure was justified by some extrapolation that seemed perfectly reasonable although I personally think it is probably pessimistic. Dr Greenhalgh does not seems have indicated any great understanding of the 'LongCovid' label anyway so she is not really in a position to pass judgment.

 

[John Mac]

More from Prof Greenhalgh:


This is the link to the Guardian article she criticised: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/05/nhs-long-covid-patients-after-pandemic

And today this:

"Show me someone with Long Flu.....err"

I thought Sly Saint's reply to this on the Long Covid thread was an excellent point.

"how quickly they forget.........
Yuppie Flu?"

 

[dave30th]

first opponent

what is the role of "first opponent" on a dissertation committee? we don't have that person on dissertation committees here. Does that person pose questions and pass judgment on whether the candidates gets the doctorate? Or...?

 

[Kalliope]

what is the role of "first opponent" on a dissertation committee? we don't have that person on dissertation committees here. Does that person pose questions and pass judgment on whether the candidates gets the doctorate? Or...?

I've never attended a PhD examination, so am not really sure. Here's how the University in Oslo describes the process and the opponents role:

Public defence
The disputation is the public defence of the thesis. It lasts between two to three hours, and is led by the chair of the defence.

• The chair of the defence opens the public defence by making a brief presentation of the candidate and committee.
• After the public defence is opened you deliver a 20 minute popular scientific summary of your research.
• The first opponent is then given 75 minutes for his/her discussion, and the second opponent up to 60 minutes.
• You finish the public defence by briefly thanking the university and the committee, whereupon the chair of the defence declares the event over.

 

[Kitty]

"Show me someone with Long Flu.....err"

Quite like the fact that someone else pointed out that they have Long Epstein-Barr! I've clocked up 45 years this year, so I'd say it's long enough.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

what is the role of "first opponent" on a dissertation committee? we don't have that person on dissertation committees here. Does that person pose questions and pass judgment on whether the candidates gets the doctorate? Or...?

I have been involved in EU PhDs occasionally and I think the 'opponents' act much like examiners in the UK. The presentation of the work can be more formal and public in mainland Europe. So an opponent would, as you say, interrogate the candidate on their methods, their interpretations etc. In the UK a doctoral examination normally consists of the candidate, to 'examiners (opponents) and the candidate's main supervisor, to ensure fair play (in theory). The examiners would then confer and make a decision.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

• The first opponent is then given 75 minutes for his/her discussion, and the second opponent up to 60 minutes.

That sounds a bit odd but I presume that 'discussion' means questioning the candidate as in the UK. In the UK examiners take things in turns but there is no formal pattern for this. Questioning may shift backend forth for different sections of the thesis.

I have never been involved in a public defence. What I am unclear about is whether in practice a public defence only occurs for a thesis that has been approved in advance - a sort of formal ceremony rather than an exam.

 

[Kalliope]

That sounds a bit odd but I presume that 'discussion' means questioning the candidate as in the UK. In the UK examiners take things in turns but there is no formal pattern for this. Questioning may shift backend forth for different sections of the thesis.

I think you are correct. My impression is also that they tend to have some mercy for the probably very nervous candidate. Would you agree?

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

I think you are correct. My impression is also that they tend to have some mercy for the probably very nervous candidate. Would you agree?

In my experience candidates nearly always get off lightly. A large number of poor quality theses get through. I personally think it would be much better if these were peer -reviewed on an iterative basis like papers. In some countries - I think the Netherlands especially - a thesis is expected to be a collection of a few published papers so that process has already been completed. I have always been impressed by the Dutch system.