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The role of low-grade inflammation in ME/CFS (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) - associations with symptoms, 2019, Jonsjö et al

Discussion in 'BioMedical ME/CFS Research' started by Tom Kindlon, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. Tom Kindlon

    Tom Kindlon Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306453019313198

     
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  2. Tom Kindlon

    Tom Kindlon Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    To facilitate sharing
     
  3. Andy

    Andy Committee Member (& Outreach when energy allows)

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    Easier to read abstract
    and Sci hub link, https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/j.psyneuen.2019.104578
     
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  4. Andy

    Andy Committee Member (& Outreach when energy allows)

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    Interesting
     
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  5. Tom Kindlon

    Tom Kindlon Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    What's the difference?
     
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  6. Andy

    Andy Committee Member (& Outreach when energy allows)

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    It's only got the abstract in the quote box.
     
  7. mango

    mango Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  8. mango

    mango Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  9. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
  10. mango

    mango Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I agree.

     
  11. Anna H

    Anna H Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    From the article, my bolding:


    Isn't using the term sickness behavior and theorizing that persistent sickness behavior is causing symptoms in ME patients characteristic of the BPS cabal?

    Edit:Just to clarify, the question is rhetorical since these researchers are part of the BPS cabal.

    Edit2: The question is apparently not rhetorical. These researchers have however only produced BPS-research in the past, and while it might not be obvious by reading just this particular paper, if one reads their complete body of work, I think it is fair to say they are part of the BPS cabal. One of the researchers involved, Gunnar Olsson, is personally responsible for many Swedish ME patients having lost large parts of their life during the past decade, due to deterioration after following his activity increasing advice.
    I for one do not trust them a bit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
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  12. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  13. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    My understanding is that they are saying that sickness behaviours 'contribute' to ME symptoms. I tend to agree in my particular case because I experience both in almost 30 yrs.
     
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  14. Hip

    Hip Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    No, rest assured that sickness behavior perspectives of ME/CFS come from the biomedical camp, not the biopsychosocial camp. Sickness behavior is the set of symptoms you get from an infection, hence it implies some sort of infectious or inflammatory process behind it.

    Michael Maes looked at whether sickness behavior might be involved in ME/CFS in one of his papers, and Michael VanElzakker's vagus nerve infection hypothesis of ME/CFS involves sickness behavior also.
     
  15. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Technically no. It's the proper clinical term. In chemotherapy patients, this would include nausea and fatigue.

    But that's the problem with behavioral models that overrule medicine, it's impossible to tell whether they are using the proper term or using it with deceitful intent to mean something else entirely.

    Were the BPS model an honest and legitimate effort, they would take great pains to clear up ambiguity. But they do the opposite, exploit the confusion deliberately, because the deceit is itself part of the model.

    So then it becomes about whether they are real scientists or believe in the BPS nonsense. It appears to be the latter, so here they probably use the incorrect meaning, but using the terminology itself isn't necessarily characteristic. It just creates so much unnecessary confusion, but without it the BPS model can't even pretend to have substance.
     
  16. Anna H

    Anna H Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Hip @rvallee
    OK, thanks for explaining. I stand corrected.
    But when the suggested treatment for said sickness behavior, eg symptoms, is to ignore it and pursue activities regardless, because sickness behavior is not considered to be part of or reflect a severe illness, as is suggested by this research team in other studies, like the ACT study, then it is clearly BPS, right?
    Because that is what they do, and how they use the term. I do not think Michael VanElzakker would argue that sickness behavior implicates ME is not a severe disease and that PEM should not be taken seriously.

    You are right @rvallee, they really do create a lot of confusion while trying to achieve medical credibility.

    I wish tough, that people would view this paper in a larger context, considering all the work that has been produced by this research team, of which this particular paper is just a small part. This research team have been active in Sweden for many years and represent a large part of the (bio) psychosocial research being done here.
     
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  17. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There's an alternative name sometimes used: sickness response. I think that's a better term than sickness behaviour.

    I also think some clinicians see a link and therefore assume the sickness response causes, or is, ME. But it could be the other way around too: ME causes a prolonged sickness response.
     
  18. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I would say something causes a prolonged sickness response and the clinical picture is called ME.
     
  19. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Does sickness response include PEM?
     
  20. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Do not know but if sickness response is seen in animals they must be kept as stressfree as possible.

    The advice can even go as far as put them in a dark quit place.
     

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