The biology of coronavirus COVID-19 - including research and treatments

[ahimsa]

I had a discussion with a person who believed that vaccinated people are variant factories because they don't have good antibodies and exert evolutionary pressure on the virus without killing it. ...

I have one friend who told me he believed something like this. He saw a video on Facebook and warned me (this was way back in March) that getting any of the COVID vaccines would make things worse for everyone all over the world.

But I think it was by a different person than the one you mentioned.

The "scientist" behind the video my friend saw is Geert Vanden Bossche. Turns out he is "board certified in Veterinary Virology, Microbiology and Animal Hygiene and hasn’t published a research paper since 1995" (quote from https://vaxopedia.org/2021/03/14/who-is-geert-vanden-bossche/).

I don't claim to understand all the scientific details but his theories have been debunked on snopes and many other sites (searching for debunk bossche should find a lot of them).

Edit: missing word

 

[Wits_End]

What is worrying for us is that the people making the choice to not wear a mask are not the ones at risk it is everybody in their vicinity.

Yes, I don't understand it either. The UK Government has spent the last year telling us that we need to wear face masks to protect others from being infected with Covid, yet now suddenly it's fine for us to choose not to wear them. Almost as if the masks were protecting us rather than others. Or alternatively as if we could stop bothering about anyone but ourselves all of a sudden - we can do exactly what we want, and everyone else can take a running jump. It makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Mithriel]

It makes sense when you realise they are trying to sell a product. UK faced crisis, crisis solved.

Everything is back to normal, vaccination, which government did really well, pat on the back, has worked, covid is no more deadly than flu or pneumonia, ignoring the demographics of that, and you can go out and spend money just like before.

Wearing a mask would keep reminding everyone there is a serious danger out there.

I was intrigued as well as worried so I have been looking at the newspapers and BBC. Everything they are saying is true but in a way we are used to in the ME community. There are graphs showing average deaths and hospitalisations comparing then and now which make everything look rosy. In Scotland and the North of England which are the highest in Europe the hospital situation is dreadful. They are opening covid wards again and the staff are exhausted trying to cope.

A quote on the BBC says that we cannot prevent people dying from covid by letting others die of cancer and other things. Yet as Jonathan Edwards pointed out it is having doctors being overwhelmed by covid patients that is stopping the cancer clinics.

We will have to learn to live with covid but not by going back to 2019 life but by forming a new normal. Making changes to how we live will not only help with covid but with the next epidemic which is coming. In my lifetime, I have seen attitudes change as people forgot how to live with infectious disease. New generations who never experienced them must relearn how to protect themselves and their families.

Government has an opportunity here but they are throwing it away.

 

[shak8]

In May, our county in California had an average of 2.7 postives per 100k population. After the June reopening and with the mask mandate removed (except for the suggested nonvaccinated wearing masks), the case rate has increased to 6 per 100k.

This leaves always a pool of over 700 people potentially passing on the virus, not to mention double or triple that number of asymptomatics spreading the virus.

There's at least 35% percent of adults not getting vaccinated and of course the children under 12 can't yet.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Is there some truth to this?

No, I think your analysis is right. A non-vaccinated person must be a better variant factory than the same person vaccinated. The idea of 'evolutionary pressure' is bogus. Mutation is inherent to the DNA and the host cell replication machinery. Pressure does not increase it. If there is competition between genetic variants then it can look as if there is evolutionary pressure but I see no evidence for any competition with Covid-129. 90% of UK cases are now delta variant not because delta has chased away alpha but just because it spreads faster. and alpha had almost died out with lockdown and the vaccine programme.

 

[oldtimer]

"Researchers have found what could be a secret weapon against new variants of COVID-19 – a type of drug related to a common blood thinner that’s effective at stopping the virus from binding with cells. QUT [Queensland University of Technology] researchers have been looking into how heparin sulphate (HS), which is in the same family as the blood-thinning drug Heparin, binds to the spike protein on the surface of the virus." https://www.theage.com.au/national/...-battling-covid-variants-20210706-p587cb.html

The research has been published in the Computational and Structural Biotechnology Journal. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2001037021001835

 

[Snow Leopard]

"Researchers have found what could be a secret weapon against new variants of COVID-19 – a type of drug related to a common blood thinner that’s effective at stopping the virus from binding with cells. QUT [Queensland University of Technology] researchers have been looking into how heparin sulphate (HS), which is in the same family as the blood-thinning drug Heparin, binds to the spike protein on the surface of the virus." https://www.theage.com.au/national/...-battling-covid-variants-20210706-p587cb.html

The research has been published in the Computational and Structural Biotechnology Journal. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2001037021001835

This might be a disaster. Heparin sulphate does indeed bind to the spike protein, which I have previously mentioned, but I have proposed a similar mechanism for the thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome, due to B-cell cocapture of PF4-Heparan sulfate-spike protein complexes.

 

[Amw66]

This might be a disaster. Heparin sulphate does indeed bind to the spike protein, which I have previously mentioned, but I have proposed a similar mechanism for the thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome, due to B-cell cocapture of PF4-Heparan sulfate-spike protein complexes.

Is this similar to TTP ?

 

[Snow Leopard]

Is this similar to TTP ?

Yes, that is what I'm suggesting.

 

[Amw66]

Yes, that is what I'm suggesting.

Awful condition - 3 years ago friend's son was admitted to hospital feeling ill and died 8 days later. I had thought, wrongly, that it was hereditary.

 

[Snow Leopard]

Awful condition - 3 years ago friend's son was admitted to hospital feeling ill and died 8 days later. I had thought, wrongly, that it was hereditary.

Actually, I was wrong, they have similar names, but TTP is apparently a different syndrome (despite having the same set of symptoms), and is associated with a different autoantibody (against ADAMTS13).

There is a very rare genetic cause, but it only explains 1% of TTP cases, the rest are autoimmune syndromes.

 

[Snow Leopard]

This is from a month ago, but a prospective study of wet markets in Wuhan in 2019 found no evidence of bats or pangolins being sold.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34099828/

 

[Suffolkres]

Craig Robinson uploaded a file in the group: Dr Sarah Myhill.
Dr Myhill has asked us to post this report by Evidence-based Medicine Consultancy Ltd, dated 26 May 2021 and with the title 'Urgent preliminary report of Yellow Card data up to 26th May 2021'

 

[Amw66]

That thing about not looking at data ....
I havnt read the paper just the thread .

 

[Yessica]

This article is from May 27, 2021. Not sure how much and how well science has evolved since then. Also other unknowns into play more now too.

Can people vaccinated against COVID-19 still spread the coronavirus? | PBS NewsHour

When the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention changed its guidelines about mask-wearing on May 13, 2021, plenty of Americans were left a little confused. Now anyone who is fully vaccinated can participate in indoor and outdoor activities, large or small, without wearing a mask or physical distancing.

But some people cannot be vaccinated because of underlying conditions. Others with weakened immune systems, from cancer or medical treatments, may not be fully protected by their vaccinations. Children aged 12 to 15 became eligible for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine only on May 10, 2021. And no COVID-19 vaccines are yet authorized for the nearly 50 million children in the U.S. younger than 12.

The recent outbreak of infections among the vaccinated New York Yankees shows that vaccinated people not only can still get infected, they might also transmit the coronavirus to close contacts.

The CDC’s relaxed guidelines on masking are meant to reassure vaccinated people that they are safe from serious illness. And they are. But the picture is less clear-cut for the unvaccinated who interact with them. Until near herd immunity against COVID-19 is achieved, and clear evidence accumulates that vaccinated people do not spread the virus, I and many epidemiologists believe it is better to avoid situations where there are chances to get infected. Vaccination coupled with continued masking and social distancing is still an effective way to stay safer.

@ahimsa Hi . Not sure if anything in this article is helpful to you regarding your post asking about this.

 

[Yessica]

Another one. Doesn't go into much detail about transmission to others from vaccinated. Infectious disease specialist Lyssette Cardona, MD does answer other questions. Quotes are two of my areas of concern.

Can Vaccinated People Transmit COVID-19 to Others? – Health Essentials from Cleveland Clinic

As restrictions and mask mandates are dropped around the county, people who are fully vaccinated might be feeling the return-to-normal fantasy. But Dr. Cardona warns that now still isn’t the time to let your guard down. While the vaccines are potent, there’s still a chance that you could become infected.

“The elderly, those with immune or chronic health conditions or those with underlying health disorders may not have the best protective response to vaccines, such as the COVID-19 vaccines. We are still collecting data and doing ongoing research about the vaccine responses in these vulnerable populations.”

 

[Yessica]

CDC Data Suggests Vaccinated Don’t Carry, Can’t Spread Virus

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...ed-don-t-carry-can-t-spread-virus/ar-BB1f8ofp

Sigh. What she says is misleading. My bolding. (Paragraph breaks mine to make it more easily readable.)

This article is from March 30, 2021. I'm posting because it shows a study and also because I wish such statements weren't made so definitely especially early on in these things because that's all most people pay attention too and remember.

If it is a small percentage, those who are vulnerable need to know this, not be told that the vaccinated do not carry the virus. I know the reasons for her saying that is to encourage everyone to get vaccinated, etc, yet it is misleading and puts an extra burden (and danger) for those that are not well protected due to medical, medications and possibly age.

"Vaccinated people do not carry the virus – they don’t get sick,” Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC, told MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow on Tuesday. That’s “not just in the clinical trials, but it’s also in real world data.”

Walensky was referring to a new CDC study that suggests those fully inoculated with the vaccines produced by Moderna and Pfizer don’t transmit the virus. Researchers looked at how the shots protected nearly 4,000 health care workers, first responders, and other essential workers toiling in eight U.S. locations against the virus and more-contagious variants.

Following a single dose of either vaccine, the participants’ risk of infection was reduced by 80 percent and that figure jumped to 90 percent after receiving the second dose. Without infection, people are unable to spread the virus. The results are similar to what scientists saw in clinical trials for the vaccines which found that two doses of either two-dose vaccine had an efficacy rate of around 95 percent.

Edit: Here more details of the study is given.

CDC study shows single dose of Pfizer or Moderna Covid vaccines was 80% effective (cnbc.com)

 

[Mithriel]

They are worried about flu this winter as they know what to put in the vaccine each year because of what happens in the southern hemisphere but this year they did not get flu. It means the vaccine will be a guess.

Surely carrying on with basic precautions like distancing and masks in crowded spaces is sensible because that could be spread by vaccinated people even if they do not spread flu.

If someone is weakened by flu what is the chance of getting covid despite being vaccinated?

 

[Sid]

 

[mango]

Press release by Danderyd Hospital, Sweden:

Antibodies after mild covid-19 last for at least a year and also bind the new Delta variant

The COMMUNITY study, investigating long-term immunity after covid-19, has now followed participants for a year and sees that the vast majority retain high levels of antibodies a year after infection. The study has examined whether the antibodies bind to the original virus as well as to several new variants, including Alpha (formerly known as B 1.117) and Delta, which are currently responsible for the spread in Sweden and Europe. The results suggest continued good protection one year after natural infection.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Antikroppar efter mild covid-19 håller i minst ett år och binder också den nya Delta-varianten
https://www.ds.se/om-oss/press2#/pr...binder-ocksaa-den-nya-delta-varianten-3116980