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Persistent fatigue induced by interferon-alpha: A novel, inflammation-based, proxy model of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, 2018, Pariante et al

Discussion in 'ME/CFS research' started by MeSci, Dec 4, 2018.

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  1. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    Andy, Dec 17, 2018
    #61
    Hutan, ladycatlover, Simone and 3 others like this.
  2. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    As I thought.

    I think this is internal MRC politics.

    I think this press release is intended to tell the world that the MRC has known about ME all along and has had brilliant people working hard on it and still does and so there is no need for a 'second referendum' on some new plan dreamt up by the CMRC.

    Pariente's work has always been of considerable interest and is an intelligent approach. However, we have known the main punch line for five years now and all it can possibly tell us is that ME might work in a rather similar way to interferon treatment.

    Edit: the question is - who is trying to tell the world this?
     
    Jonathan Edwards, Dec 17, 2018
    #62
    janice, Hutan, Forestvon and 31 others like this.
  3. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The reporting in the press presents this study about being primarily about CFS when it's really primarily about adverse effects of interferon treatment.

    Maybe this is more about distracting from the adverse effects of interferon treatment than about CFS? If interferon treatment can cause persistent fatigue, that persistent fatigue is conflated with CFS, and CFS is characterized by fear-avoidance and deconditioning and is reversible if the patient wants it, then continued illness after interferon treatment isn't really an adverse drug reaction, it's just some patients being hysterical (or somethign to that effect). Drug manufacturers and hospitals would like to have it that way I suspect.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
    Hoopoe, Dec 17, 2018
    #63
    feeb, ladycatlover, Simone and 10 others like this.
  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    They should avoid taking candy from strangers.
     
    alex3619, Dec 17, 2018
    #64
    ladycatlover and MEMarge like this.
  5. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, briefing given by Pariante and Russell on Friday morning.
     
    JohnTheJack, Dec 17, 2018
    #65
    janice, ladycatlover, Simone and 12 others like this.
  6. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I have just listened to the interview with Carmine Pariante and an ME sufferer called Emily Blunt (I think). It was actually quite a good interview, emphasising that ME is real and not just tiredness.

    Pariante seemed to be suggesting that the people in his study who had the overactive immune response had actually developed CFS, not just the symptom CF. I thought the paper only claimed they deveoped CF, and that it might be a proxy for CFS.
     
    Trish, Dec 17, 2018
    #66
    Hutan, janice, MSEsperanza and 22 others like this.
  7. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    They did. Friday morning briefing.
     
    JohnTheJack, Dec 17, 2018
    #67
    ladycatlover, Simone, Dolphin and 5 others like this.
  8. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Is there a link to a press release?
     
    Trish, Dec 17, 2018
    #68
    ladycatlover, MSEsperanza and MEMarge like this.
  9. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    No, I think that is off target. These people are wanting to understand the biochemistry of depression. This particular study has always been about modelling CFS and I think that is what it really is about. I think it is useful research. I don't think anyone in this research group is interested in suggesting that continued fatigue after interferon is hysteria. Psychiatrists are desperate to have a biological basis to their work to make it legitimate. Even Simon Wessely tried to find one.
     
    Jonathan Edwards, Dec 17, 2018
    #69
    feeb, janice, TrixieStix and 19 others like this.
  10. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    I haven't seen one. I was just told about the briefing.
     
    JohnTheJack, Dec 17, 2018
    #70
    ladycatlover, Dolphin, MSEsperanza and 3 others like this.
  11. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    Andy, Dec 17, 2018
    #71
    ladycatlover, Simone, MSEsperanza and 2 others like this.
  12. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Given the study has some 19 authors ( https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453018301963?via=ihub ), why are conflicts of interest only love stead for seven? What about the other twelve?

    Here are the institutions the authors represent:

     
    Peter Trewhitt, Dec 17, 2018
    #72
    ladycatlover and MSEsperanza like this.
  13. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    We have a thread on the Pariante paper here with a link to the pre-publication abstract on the university website here. And his talk at the CMRC conference here. I assume the publicity today means the paper is about to be published, so we'll be able to see the full version, not just the abstract.
     
    Trish, Dec 17, 2018
    #73
    Hutan, ladycatlover, Simone and 9 others like this.
  14. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    The S4ME version of a rapid reaction to the hype.
    Code:
    https://www.facebook.com/sci4me/posts/732919633761115
     
    Andy, Dec 17, 2018
    #74
    Hutan, TrixieStix, ladycatlover and 23 others like this.
  15. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    I take a much less charitable view of this study than many here. I think it's garbage and irrelevant to ME and welcoming it is a trap.

    First, it's not about ME. It's about fatigue after interferon.

    Second, why do some people have overactive immune systems? Well, because of personality type, stress or trauma, of course.

    Third, how is this fatigue triggered? By a virus. And also by stress or trauma, of course.

    Fourth, once the patient has fatigue, how is it perpetuated? By unhelpful beliefs, of course.

    Fourth, how is this fatigue treated? By addressing the personality type, stress or trauma with therapy and the moderated increase of activity in GET, of course.

    Pariante's work is all about the interplay of psychology and the immune system.

    It's just a more complex version of the usual crap.

    I don't have fatigue. I'm ill.
     
    JohnTheJack, Dec 17, 2018
    #75
    feeb, janice, Judee and 35 others like this.
  16. TiredSam

    TiredSam Committee Member

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    Looks like either Carol Monaghan or Westminster Hall are now officially "emotional".

    NICE is a watchdog is it? Well that explains why we have all been robbed of so many years while NICE was asleep or chewing on a tasty bone someone chucked it.

    BBC article headed by a picture of a typical ME sufferer:

    upload_2018-12-17_10-12-0.png

    Come on now, own up, which one of you bravely posed for that on one of your bad days? Is that some EFT tapping going on there, or did you swoon and hold your nose after reading the BBC article?
     
    TiredSam, Dec 17, 2018
    #76
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  17. InitialConditions

    InitialConditions Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Can anyone confirm what time the radio coverage was on? And what station, if not Radio 4. Thanks
     
    InitialConditions, Dec 17, 2018
    #77
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  18. TiredSam

    TiredSam Committee Member

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    I'll go along with that. How many ways can it be taken apart? I'll start with small sample size.
     
    TiredSam, Dec 17, 2018
    #78
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  19. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Radio 4 Today program. Brief news item at about 7.06 am. Longer interview item at about 8.50 am.
     
    Trish, Dec 17, 2018
    #79
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  20. Tilly

    Tilly Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That got a giggle
     
    Tilly, Dec 17, 2018
    #80
    SarahandElly, alex3619 and MEMarge like this.
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