Paul Garner on Long Covid and ME/CFS - BMJ articles and other media.

Sly Saint said:
another weird tweet from Garner
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If S4ME, the work of people like David Tuller and Brian, etc are at all typical of ME and Long Covid discussion we might even spend more time discussing work we disagree with than the biomedical research, however if you look at the reference lists in publications of those advocating GET/CBT and the misnamed BPS devotees in the ME Long Covid field they almost entirely disregard the research investigating the biological underpinnings of these conditions.

So undoubtedly I agree with Paul Garner that a limited one sided examination of the available evidence is a bad thing, just it is a profound shame that he does not heed his own advice. Yet again we see those that believe ME and Long Covid have a psychological basis failing to understand the work of those that disagree with them and projecting their own failings onto others.
 
Enormous irony in the tweet posted in reply to Garner:

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(Cartoon of a gameshow setting, the host says "I'm sorry, Jeannie, your answer was correct, but Kevin shouted his incorrect answer over yours, so he gets the points.)

Sure, it's true that some "partisans" on both sides ignore facts and promote rubbish, that's true in any significant debate. But, someone cannot sustain the BPS view of things (i.e. that ME/CFS can be fixed with better thinking and exercise) without ignoring facts.

The establishment seems to be reasonably capable of sorting out the odd fact-ignoring partisan who is opposed to the BPS ideas, look for example at how Dr Myhill has been treated. Meanwhile, fact-ignoring BPS partisans in positions of power continue to divert research funds away from work that might actually bring some clarity to the situation, and continue to cause psychological harm on a massive scale.
 
Hutan said:
But, someone cannot sustain the BPS view of things (i.e. that ME/CFS can be fixed with better thinking and exercise) without ignoring facts.
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If discussing non-ME politics wasn’t against the rules I might have drawn an analogy with certain politicians (and one in particular) who have been making a lot of counter-factual noise lately. But I don’t want to get in to trouble so I won’t!

Without being specific or revealing where my political allegiances lie, I do find it interesting, and concerning, to observe the parallels between certain “think-tanks” and the politicians they feed and the actions of the BPS enthusiasts/SMC. There is probably a RCP/LM overlap there too but I don’t want to get in trouble.

Apologies to the mods if I’ve overstepped or made extra work for you.
 
Oh dear, we must have upset PG again and he needs to do some wolf whistling to the world. I wonder how his quasi-retirement from Cochrane is going? Is he beavering away doing journal reviews in his study trying to justify himself after all his weird communications around ME/LC on TV and his ongoing twitter nonsense.

I often wonder, if he is doing zoom journal club with his BPS colleagues or a phone call to his LP mates…Please don’t go on a lecture tour Paul, on anything other than what you trained in (and seem to have forgotten), BPS, LP or that you have transformed yourself into an expert on ME/LC activism. :laugh:
 
RedFox said:
Lol what? This isn't a political debate where we have filter bubbles. This is a scientific debate where we weigh facts. You won't move the needle by accusing your opponents of character flaws.
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Their debate has always been political, only ours is scientific and humanistic. Politics is all they have, this is quite similar to what Wessely and Sharpe did for years, nothing new here. It works, precisely because the issue is limited to politics, always avoiding any mention of any science. That's why they keep doing the same thing over and over again: it works for them. Which says everything in that what works for them is awful to us and vice versa. We are in such awful hands.
 
Solstice said:
One might ask him why he is so angry and partisan....
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Indeed you’d think after his 6month brush with it might become ME/CFS now cured by Lycra and a few medicine balls and reciting his LP Norway pals he’d be spending more time snorkelling [than he did in that 6months where he was on a snorkelling holiday even tho he was tweeting that he thought it was becoming ME/CFS]

I’m a bit confused/intrigued by it all really with him because the guy seemed to have a real career once in a different area that from the little I see I’ve no reason to doubt was bona fide and made a difference to those in developing countries etc (tho the next bit makes me want to look more closely at that now). Although it seems he was at conferences with the Norway LP bunch for years before covid

the detail of what happened in the interim to become this and who was involved … I’m struggling to see why one would choose to become thus vs being grateful you never got permanently ill and using your retirement for all these other opportunities (snorkelling, dabbling in his original research areas)

I feel there’s some story of some people doing a number on him mind wise or something
 
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This is a Really Nasty smear piece in which Garner now claims to be the victim of explicit violent threats, illustrated with a photo of a very large gun. The article is also explicit in stating the threats come from "the ME community".
https://www.livpost.co.uk/p/professor-paul-garner-was-delighted


Paragraph:
'The “activists,” in this context, are members of the ME community, which refers to Myalgic encephalomyelitis, or chronic fatigue syndrome. And while it goes without saying that not all ME activists were sending Garner death threats, the above was one of several he received, some of which he has shown The Post. Another had a picture attached of a man holding a machine gun and read “Don't u ever dare to talk about Long Covid or CFS again”. He showed a member of the security team at work, who replied: “I wouldn’t worry Paul, that’s quite a specialist weapon, they’d struggle to get the ammunition in this country.”





The journalist Jack Walton tries to give the story an updated spin by implying that Garner is being "cancelled":

Paragraph:
'Much of the narrative feels like one most will be familiar in current times: a cancel culture story. He doesn’t use that word, but he does use “deplatformed” twice, a word you’ll hear a lot in debates around trans rights or race, where a person perceived to hold offensive views is blocked from public debate. It’s a story we hear over and over: the outspoken academic, the angry activists, the former believing the latter is attempting to crush non-conformist opinion, the latter believing the former is using their platform to inflict harm on vulnerable communities, and is even revelling in doing so.'




The journalist claims his interest was "piqued" by Natalie Shure's New Republic article (so much for pretending the article did not create widespread damage to us).

'A fascinating long-read in The New Republic entitled “We Might Have Long Covid All Wrong” piqued my own interest in this topic.'


** I earlier stated that Garner had not contacted the police. But that was wrong. He did, and Interpol also as he says some of the alleged threats may have come from Europe. What Garner does not say is if the Police tried to trace the senders of the alleged threats, or tried to take legal action against them.

What the police would NOT have told Garner is 'Go and do an inflammatory interview with a credulous shit stirring journalist'


There is an abundance of allegations against ME sufferers from psychosocial doctors and researchers, all made public in lurid press stories - and a Complete Absence of any legal action against the alleged ME patient threateners. You may be forgiven for thinking there was never any actual case to answer.
 
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It feels like we're living in a dystopian nightmare where becoming ill turns us into pariahs who are not only disbelieved about our own symptoms, gaslighted and denied adequate care, but can now be accused of being a threat to those who gaslight us. And journalists believe all this and amplify it. I don't understand it at all. And it's getting worse.
 
Lou B Lou said:
The link includes a means to respond to the article by Commenting on the article page.
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I see.

So you could include both links -- the archive link for those who want to read first and the direct link for those who want to comment.

I realize thought that's perhaps too complicated.


Edit: Of course, the webarchive link displays the link to the article too, so just one click more for anyone who wants to comment.

Apologies, maybe not important anyway -- :asleep:
 
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Professor Garner, I assume you are reading this thread. If so I would like to invite you to a have a series of conversations with me so we can better understand each other's experiences and views. I would invite you to come and stay with myself and my daughter, so you can see what life is like with long term ME, but we are both too sick to cope with strangers staying in our house.
 
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