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OMF to launch clinical trials on Mestinon & Kynurenine, post-COVID19 study

Discussion in 'BioMedical ME/CFS News' started by cassava7, May 1, 2020.

  1. cassava7

    cassava7 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    From their May Momentum 2020 newsletter & https://www.omf.ngo/maymomentum/
    Post-COVID19 study: https://www.omf.ngo/2020/04/26/tracking-covid-19-patients/
    Mestinon trial: https://www.omf.ngo/2020/04/26/the-mestinon-clinical-trial-for-me-cfs/ & https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/record/NCT03674541
    Kynurenine trial: https://www.omf.ngo/2020/04/26/kynurenine-clinical-trial-for-me-cfs/

    The Mestinon trial is David Systrom's at Brigham's, the kynurenine one will be at Uppsala University under the supervision of Dr Bergquist.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
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  2. Jaybee00

    Jaybee00 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks for posting. First I’ve heard of the Kyn trial. Wonder what the dosage is/is it administered orally or via IV?
     
  3. Sid

    Sid Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Excellent idea. If many people develop ME/CFS after this epidemic, it will be much harder for the BPS lobby to claim it's all due to false illness beliefs.
     
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  4. cassava7

    cassava7 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The "continuous health tracking via wearables" bit makes me think that Mike Snyder has been giving his input for the study... Hopefully he'll participate all along :)

    For reference:
     
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  5. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I don't think they would have a problem claiming that the stress of the pandemic explains development of ME/CFS. It would be very biopsychosocial.
     
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  6. Perrier

    Perrier Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    So many patients do not tolerate Mestinon. And the drug did not really help. This drug has been tried on patients decades ago by many CFS doctors in the USA.

    PS. Is there anyone here who has been helped by this drug?
     
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  7. lunarainbows

    lunarainbows Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think some researchers looking at CPET (are they connected with OMF?) have been interested in this drug for a while. I forget their names. But I think they’ve done some sort of work with this drug already and it did seem to help some people with their CPET results (and V02 max?)

    Edit: it’s Systrom. It’s discussed from this post onwards, https://www.s4me.info/threads/what-...ike-to-see-happening.10654/page-2#post-189795
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
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  8. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    My guess is the decision to conduct a clinical trial of kynurenine means they have some new information.
     
  9. Badpack

    Badpack Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Mestinon seem like a big waste of time and money to me. So many ppl and doctors tried Mestinon over the years without big success. I tried it to. Besides playing with my blood pressure and making me more uncomfortable it didnt help. Kinda feel bad moment to see ME resources wasted on this again and again.
     
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  10. Perrier

    Perrier Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Dear Badpack
    I agree entirely. Our family member tried it in 2008, and for a long time, gave it a good shot. It was awful, in terms of side effects, and in terms of not helping whatsoever. Many CFS doctors during the 2000s tried it on their patients. When I heard that Dr Systrom was interested in this a year or two ago, I thought, oh dear...waste of resources again. I wondered too, whether or not he had contacted CFS doctors who used this on their patients. I would dearly like to hear from someone whom this drug helped. Is there anyone on this site?

    The kynunerine testing is really interesting, however. Can't wait to hear the results.
     
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  11. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I actually loved Mestinon. It gave me back some of my brainpower but I became intolerant to all meds and had to stop.

    That being said. It wasn't very effective for my OI but I was definitely better on it than what I'm now.

    Anyways Systrom and VanElzakker are quite into this drug. Let's see!

    I'm not sure about the kynurenine. Unless there are some new leads?
     
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  12. Perrier

    Perrier Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks Grigor for pointing out it helped with brainpower. Thanks, glad to hear your experience. You, know, I can't figure out why ME folks are so intolerant to all meds. The same experience in our family.

    The two doctors may be 'into this drug' but if doesn't help because it is not tolerated, I'm not sure what the use is. The thing is the drug doesn't get at the core problem of this illness, whatever that is. From the 5 patients I knew on Mestinon, none of the fatigue, weakenss, OI, or PEM, or anything disappeared. All 5 quit the drug.
     
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  13. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    True the effect on OI wasn't massive.

    Forgot to mention that it also reduced my PEM significantly from 5 days to maybe 2 or sometimes just 1 day.
    I miss those days...

    Also the intolerance isn't solely due Mestinon perse. I'm intolerant to everything. Including smallest amounts of foods (histamines, salicylates etc) , crumbs of supplements with or without fillers etc.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
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  14. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Wanna bet?
     
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  15. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    No!
     
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  16. cassava7

    cassava7 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Dr Systrom has a well-detailed hypothesis on the effect of Mestinon in ME/CFS: http://endmecfs.mgh.harvard.edu/heartpreload/ (see "Read more"). The clinical trial, in which participants are given a single dose of Mestinon and then do an invasive CPET, should allow to test for this specific hypothesis?

    Null results are important too for getting clues about the pathophysiology of ME, if the hypothesis is precise enough to allow to understand why the trial failed. But, hah, they do cost money.
     
  17. cassava7

    cassava7 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The only clinical trial on kynurenine I could find is this small pilot study, "The Effect of Intravenous L-kynurenine (LKYN) on Cerebral Hemodynamics in Healthy Volunteers":
    Oddly enough, the hypothesis is that kynurenine triggers headaches, while OMF aim to reduce their intensity or frequence (bolding mine):
    https://www.omf.ngo/2020/04/26/kynurenine-clinical-trial-for-me-cfs/
     
  18. Jessie 107

    Jessie 107 Established Member

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    I know someone who is severe and bedbound already taking Mestinon, but
    I am very disappointed that they are bothering to trial this drug, absolute waste of time and money.
    I know a severe bedbound patient taking it with very little improvement at all.
     
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  19. jamari

    jamari Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    My guess is that they are supplementing it based on the theory that kynurenine would be low in patients if Dr Phair's IDO2 metabolic trap hypothesis is correct.
     
  20. wigglethemouse

    wigglethemouse Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    We should all remember treatments can have positive as well as negative outcomes. Will OMF explain the proposed benefit of increasing kynurenine, and what the risks are? We've yet to see ANY convincing data for the metabolic trap, two years after work first started!!!

    There seems to be a lot of articles about the relationship between the kynurenine and Schizophrenia. Anyone have any knowledge in this area? A bit concerning.
    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=kynurenine+schizophrenia
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
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