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Michael Sharpe: Mind, Medicine and Morals: A Tale of Two Illnesses (2019) BMJ blog - and published responses

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic news - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by Estherbot, May 29, 2019.

  1. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Michiel Tack

    I've never seen anyone with cancer clamouring for psychological treatments. (Not that I've ever looked for it.) Do you know of any links that might back this up?
     
  2. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    To be fair I knew a good friend/colleague who lost his long hard fight with cancer some while back now. He and his wife openly told me and others that the counselling they both received was of tremendous help with their coping; said they did not know how they would have been managing without.
     
  3. ME/CFS Skeptic

    ME/CFS Skeptic Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Nope, sorry. I was just quoting Wessely.
     
    ukxmrv, MEMarge and Arnie Pye like this.
  4. MEMarge

    MEMarge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The reason that CFS sits in uncomfortable territory between medicine and psychiatry is because Wesseley and his ilk have put it there.
    The fact that PwME are uncomfortable with psych therapies is that they are promoted as curative not supportive.

    I do not think that even W & Co are promoting psych therapy in cancer as anything more than supportive/coming to terms with/talking things through.

    The arrogance of the guy is once again ASTOUNDING!
     
    Atle, Mithriel, Medfeb and 9 others like this.
  5. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It is not merely arrogance. It is a deliberate tactic to discredit critics of his approach.

    First it misleads the reader into thinking that CBT for cancer is comparable to CBT for CFS. Then in effect he says that critics object to CBT for petty reasons.

    I suppose that makes him arrogant in the sense of not being willing to recognize criticism of his approach as deserving an honest answer.
     
    Mithriel, Andy, Hutan and 7 others like this.
  6. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think it's more than arrogance @MEMarge, I think it's cold, calculating misdirection. Making a false comparison with one very reasonable thing, hoping your audience do not notice there is a difference and only see the apparent similarity. Then argue your case based on the presumption of a valid comparison. These are the psychological tactics seen in abusive relationships, and in that context are seen as predatory. I find it despicable to see it used here like this, by people professing to have only their patients' interests at heart. As my daughter would have once said: "Yeah, right!".

    ETA: I see @strategist got there ahead of me :).
     
    Chezboo, MEMarge, Mithriel and 9 others like this.
  7. BruceInOz

    BruceInOz Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    What you are describing is a straw man argument.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
    Never a sound way to win an argument but, nevertheless, often employed.
     
    MEMarge, rvallee, Barry and 8 others like this.
  8. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Michael Sharpe trying to provoke responses to add to his 'abusive' file(?)

    https://twitter.com/user/status/1145288448120688640


    (he retweeted [@cfs_research] link to the article over a week ago but there were only two replies)

    maybe leave it that way. Not really worth replying to.
     
  9. feeb

    feeb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    He's probably already blocked most of the people who'd be likely to respond!
     
  10. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes it is a straw man argument, and a very subtle one. These people excel at presenting them in extremely plausible-sounding ways. It is often the case that people use straw man arguments without realising they are doing so. But these people do it with cold diversionary precision, which I find revolting. Of all people, they know exactly what they are doing, and one day I hope the law makes it their undoing.
     
    Chezboo, Mithriel, MEMarge and 5 others like this.
  11. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Only one reply by Erik and it's a pretty apt.

    Can't really fish for replies he could pretend are abusive since he blocked nearly everyone who would bother. Victim mentality only works when you convince others of it, that's all he's trying to do. But his rambling article is so bad that I doubt anyone will engage beyond a quick like. It'd be embarrassing to appear to give credibility to this high school level attempt at philosophy filled with logical fallacies.

    He's probably reading this thread, though. Michael, your attempt at philosophy is puerile and as inept as your life's work on a disease you don't understand the first thing about. Using big words incorrectly never actually sounds smart, there has to be genuine substance to give them weight. Stay in your lane, whatever that actually is. Toy models, maybe?
     
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  12. Simone

    Simone Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  13. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    ukxmrv, ladycatlover, MEMarge and 3 others like this.
  14. ME/CFS Skeptic

    ME/CFS Skeptic Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes, that's weird. It was probably submitted instead of published on 23 June.
     
  15. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  16. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Merged thread

    Commentary by Michiel Tack

    Why Graded Exercise Therapy and Cognitive Behaviour Therapy are Controversial in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

    https://blogs.bmj.com/medical-human...re-controversial-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/

    @Michiel Tack
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2019
    JaneL, ukxmrv, Sly Saint and 20 others like this.
  17. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Very good. Especially ...
     
    JaneL, ukxmrv, ladycatlover and 12 others like this.
  18. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Excellent response!

    Ignores the pretend argument by Sharpe and focuses on the real points of controversy.
     
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  19. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    ladycatlover and Lucibee like this.
  20. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    It's a separate blog.
     

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