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Independent advisory group for the full update of the Cochrane review on exercise therapy and ME/CFS (2020), led by Hilda Bastian

Discussion in '2021 Cochrane Exercise Therapy Review' started by Lucibee, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. Caroline Struthers

    Caroline Struthers Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    My question (below) was not addressed at all!

    "Would you agree that a register of interests should cover doctors who develop and conduct publicly funded trials on social and psychological interventions? These trials influence national guidelines so are even more influential on patients than individual doctors. By the same token, shouldn’t the scope of a Patient Safety Commissioner include harm caused by the promotion of such therapies when the evidence may have been generated by doctors with vested interests?"
     
  2. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Nothing in my inbox yet...
     
  3. Caroline Struthers

    Caroline Struthers Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It's only 11.30pm on 30th May in Pago Pago
     
  4. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm not in Pago Pago
     
  5. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    Revised timescale is now a few days after the previous timescale........
     
  6. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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  7. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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  8. Hilda Bastian

    Hilda Bastian Guest Guest

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    Thanks for subscribing. Should come soon - that had to wait till after the holiday was over so someone could do it. We didn't want to draw attention to the report till the emails could go out on the same day as that announcement.
     
  9. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    I think the key thing is the people involved:
    So there's a group of authors:
    For the consumer reps, the aim was to have 'Different experiences/beliefs about exercise' represented. It's nice to see @Medfeb on the team, but having consumers with different beliefs about exercise for ME/CFS writing an exercise review makes as much sense as ensuring that you have a believer in climate change and a disbeliever in climate change writing a climate change review.

    It will be interesting to see if there are any dyed-in-the-wool BPS proponents in the the other roles.



    And there's the Independent Advisory Group

    I don't know all the people in the IAG, but I have some reservations. @Hilda Bastian, what made you choose ME/CFS Australia as one of the international consumer representative organisations? This is a very very small organisation and, despite its name, it is not a national organisation. That said, I think the ME/CFS Australia people involved are not fans of GET.

    Aside from the issues with the selection of participants, it looks ok I think. There is an aim to get a protocol out for a short public consultation later in the year and produce the review next year.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
  10. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    In particular, Robert Courtney and @Tom Kindlon submitted influential major detailed comments that Cochrane published, but did not adequately respond to.

    Thank you for that long overdue and thoroughly deserved acknowledgement.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
    Sid, DokaGirl, Sarah94 and 35 others like this.
  11. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, to be fair, I guess they never did promise openness or democracy in the choice of participants in this process.

    Given that S4ME specifically asked back in November 2019 to be 'kept informed of progress, and with a view to possible involvement' (see our open letter here), I am disappointed that we and other ME organisations were not even informed that the process of putting forward names of possible participants had started, let alone how our possible nominees were supposed to apply.

    Please someone correct me if I have forgotten an announcement of the positions being open and applications invited, and I will correct this post.
     
    Louie41, Frankie, DokaGirl and 20 others like this.
  12. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Just further on the selection of ME/CFS Australia - recent financials available on the Australian companies register show Emerge (edit - the largest Australian ME/CFS organisation) had an annual income of $897,000 and an annual expenditure of $650,000. ME/CFS Australia Ltd had an income of $5008 and an expenditure of $1300.

    Emerge has quite a lot of paid staff, ME/CFS Australia have none.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
  13. Caroline Struthers

    Caroline Struthers Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    "To achieve a balance of independent appointment and community representation, for the three positions representing people with ME/CFS internationally I invited organisations to hold these positions"
    I would have thought S4ME would have been an ideal (the ideal) organisation to be invited to have a representative on the IAG. It is truly international.
     
  14. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    For those of our members who are unable to read the amount of text in this announcement, I'll be attempting to create a summary of what seems to be the key points so that you can get a better idea of what is going on. Of course, if anybody else wants to do that, I'll be delighted to not have to do it.

    ETA: See here, https://www.s4me.info/threads/indep...ed-by-hilda-bastian.13645/page-51#post-347648, for the highlights.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
  15. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    We probably offered too many criticisms.... ;)
     
  16. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I know of these representatives from ME/CFS Australia through various social media groups and local support groups. I'd be surprised if any of them favoured GET in any form whatsoever. They all seem to be very well-informed and motivated.

    Penelope McMillan is on the forum so I hope she'd be responsive to ideas and feedback from members here.
     
  17. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I am very pleased to see this. I am a little concerned at the 'very short' consultation period. I hope that will allow time for sick and/or busy people to review, discuss and edit their submission, especially group submissions where members will want to be consulted in the process.
    I have no idea what is meant by 'very short'. I would expect about a month to 6 weeks would be a reasonable minimum, especially given how long the process has taken so far, it would be a pity to stumble at this vital stage for want of a few more days.
     
  18. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I don't mind if there are people from outside the community that opposes GET, as long as they do not have conflicts of interest. They should be easy to convince with the information that is available and their presence makes the review more credible.
     
  19. Hilda Bastian

    Hilda Bastian Guest Guest

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    Firstly, I agree that the long period without a public report was a serious problem: I can't do more now than apologize for that, and am happy to discuss how that came to be - with all the pressures of the pandemic, much that needed to be re-negotiated, and the desire to still reach the same goal, things didn't go according to the original plan.

    I'm sorry if it wasn't clear that people were welcome to contact us with suggestions etc - in the March posting, we said suggestions were coming in. My apologies if it wasn't clear that this was welcome. We did note the email address to which enquiries could be directed.

    When I became familiar with the open letter, I emailed S4ME, asking to whom I could respond (that was 19 May 2020). I replied exactly as I advised to, sending my answer to the open letter on 31 May 2020. There, I indicated that S4ME was being considered. This was at the same time as my participation in this Forum was being discussed. I consider my involvement in this Forum engagement with S4ME, and would think many others would see it that way. Indeed, I have received several messages from people thanking me for it, including encouraging me not to be deterred by the frequently discouraging comments made here. I have responded to every email I got from S4ME, and as I indicated in the report, added documents submitted by S4ME for IAG consideration to the list of past comments/critiques analyzed.

    There were clearly discussions with multiple organizations representing people with ME/CFS - obviously the organizations which are now represented on the IAG, but others as well. Indeed, there were discussions ongoing with Cochrane with some people even before I was involved. I also obviously followed discussions on that topic - here, on Twitter, at other ME/CFS organizations, etc. The ultimate decisions about appointments, however, were mine: although I had lots of discussions and considered the advice of quite a few people with ME/CFS, none of those people should be considered responsible for any deficiencies people see with any of this.

    Membership of the IAG was always going to be limited, and so could not be the only vehicle for groups' involvement in the process, and it won't be, now that the "hot" phase of the review from an external point of view has begun. And finally, I think it's important to keep in mind that, as described in yesterday's report, there is still a position on the IAG that the IAG will decide on. All the people and groups that indicated interest in participating will be considered, along with discussions and suggestions from that group about how to go forward with this.

    I agree, of course, that there have been many weaknesses with the process so far - but I don't think non-communication by me with S4ME is one of them.
     
  20. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    These posts are from last year back when Garner was stating clearly that the Cochrane review was crap. @Hilda Bastian As you are probably aware, he was 'got at' by the Lightning Process people and persuaded to believe all sorts of nonsense about thinking yourself better from his post covid symptoms with happy thoughts, in the process throwing us under a bus with is nonsensical claims of curing himself of ME/CFS he clearly never had.
    I hope you will steer well clear of him.
     
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