Experience with Lightning Process course 2008, Norway

Parsnip said:
They say cultists/leaders dont care why you do something, as long as you do what they want. And the more suggestible part of the population, due to personality traits, isolation, desperation or whatever, is exactly the type of people they would want to recruit.

The LP people do keep repeating "we only want the people who are the most motivated" line.
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Yep. From the outset they are weeding out people who aren't suggestible by using prescreening questionnaires, looking for people who are high in personality traits agreeableness (going along to get along) and openness to experience. These sorts of people are willing to try reckless, random things and will say they're doing better in order to people-please the therapist and fit in with the group. And the therapist's accusatory comment about your problem being that you question things, this also indicates that they love gullible ppl who are not very analytical.

Back in late 19th early 20th century when hypnosis was a popular approach in psychiatry it was noted that about a third of the population is low in suggestibility and some people can't be hypnotised at all.
 
Parsnip said:
Yes, and in our case, blame us for not wanting to get healthy, or are not doing it right. Which conveniently fits the public perception, and they get away with whatever the are doing.
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Yes, but it goes beyond that.

Invisible Woman said:
Their trainers aren't members of any professional body, so there's no authority to report them to.
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If you are unhappy with the behaviour of a doctor, nurse, counsellor, dentist, physiotherapist you can not only make a complaint to the health authority who referred them, complaints can also be made to the professional body they belong too.

Those professional bodies can take corrective action or prevent that healthcare professional working in their usual job.

So, any healthcare system that starts to refer to therapists who do not belong to a nationally recognised body that oversees professional conduct is failing in it's duty of care to patients being referred.

In addition to that, because of the nature of the treatment itself, there is an inbuilt problem due to the treatment itself in raising complaints.

This double failing, weakness, fundamental flaw in the way in which LP practitioners work should automatically disbar them for referral by healthcare systems.
 
Sid said:
Yep. From the outset they are weeding out people who aren't suggestible by using prescreening questionnaires, looking for people who are high in personality traits agreeableness (going along to get along) and openness to experience. These sorts of people are willing to try reckless, random things and will say they're doing better in order to people-please the therapist and fit in with the group.
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I would also suggest that this type of person might be a little more likely to find themselves in a situation where they burn themselves out and simply having a long rest away from running around pleasing other people will automatically make them feel better.

This is part of the problem - those people might genuinely be helped by having someone else give them.permission to stand on a circle and say "Stop!" .
 
Invisible Woman said:
If you are unhappy with the behaviour of a doctor, nurse, counsellor, dentist, physiotherapist you can not only make a complaint to the health authority who referred them, complaints can also be made to the professional body they belong too.

Those professional bodies can take corrective action or prevent that healthcare professional working in their usual job.
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Yes, @Invisible Woman, corrective action or prevention of practice may be carried out.
Many likely don't know about the behind the scenes machinations of professional bodies and discipline of members.

It sometimes seems there have to be several serious failings before some practitioners are brought to justice so to speak.
This partly depends on the professional body, as well as a host of other factors.
The patient or customer is often in a one-down situation.
 
Invisible Woman said:
This double failing, weakness, fundamental flaw in the way in which LP practitioners work should automatically disbar them for referral by healthcare systems.
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I might have been a awkard in my wording, as i was talking about LP and then general case with cults.

I was tinking it would be difficult to stop cults and weird therapies in general.

But I completly agree, no one in the health care system should ever have recommended LP, or any other 'weird' treatment. Not just because they can hurt people, cause false hope, be expensive etc, but as you say, one can't report them.

If i forgot to add the bit about apples in my last post, i meant to write this:
With a therapist one can at least file a complaint and that 'rotten' apple would hopefully be taken out of the basket.
 
Don't get me wrong @DokaGirl - I'm not saying the current system.works well, or even at all.

However, there is some notional professional body in place. A body that can revoke your license to practice should some gross misconduct take place.

When dealing with the likes of an LP practitioner there is no professional body at all. This means there is no legal body that can ban an LP practitioner from seeing clients.

Coupled with the nature of the therapy itself it leaves potentially vulnerable patients open to all sorts of abuse.

If a counsellor or therapist has to be a member of a professional body to practice then so too should an LP practitioner.
 
Invisible Woman said:
Not at all.

Your words just made me realize something which I don't recall seeing mentioned before.

I wonder is it's something we could use to stop health care systems referring to such therapies.
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Ok good, I am aware i sometimes can be unclear in my writing.

Well yes, i dont think they are allowed to refer to alternative therapies. But in norway i felt they didnt care, atleast back in the day... So you kind of didnt have a choice. Either LP or loose welfare payments in some cases.


Also why the study they wanted to do here is scary.

The norwegian LP application, specifically say: they wanted LP integrated into the health care system, so that EVERYONE could get help with their "thoughs, feelings, and emotions".

As they somehow think it's not just us who need help with that...
 
Invisible Woman said:
Don't get me wrong @DokaGirl - I'm not saying the current system.works well, or even at all.

However, there is some notional professional body in place. A body that can revoke your license to practice should some gross misconduct take place.

When dealing with the likes of an LP practitioner there is no professional body at all. This means there is no legal body that can ban an LP practitioner from seeing clients.

Coupled with the nature of the therapy itself it leaves potentially vulnerable patients open to all sorts of abuse.

If a counsellor or therapist has to be a member of a professional body to practice then so too should an LP practitioner.
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@Invisible Woman, absolutely not getting you wrong.

You are totally right, the system isn't ideal; it may not work for a significant number with legitimate complaints.

The system doesn't necessarily work as the brochure says it does.

After all, professional bodies are a body of one's peers.

We just had a thread discussing problems with scientists not catching fraud:

https://www.s4me.info/threads/the-a...-catching-fraud-2021-by-stuart-ritchie.21307/

I think the same sort of thing may happen with other professionals.

I made my comments as a heads up to others who might believe and trust that the system will act in their favour.

Indeed, what it says on an organization's website, brochure etc., may be completely opposite to what eventually happens.

I think your choice of the term "gross misconduct" is very appropriate.

It may take this level of conduct for some professional bodies to act.

It may take several instances of gross misconduct for some to act.

And, as you say, without a professional body, this can leave patients open to abuse.

:)
 
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