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Esther Crawley talk at TEDxBristol, Thurs 2nd Bristol - "Disrupting Your View Of ME"

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic news - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by Andy, Oct 25, 2017.

  1. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    3,768
    Location:
    UK
    I'm confused. So she did receive a letter or email with that wording and the only issue is that it wasn't made up from cut-out letters?
     
  2. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    51,871
    Location:
    UK
    I think you are being to kind to EC here, @markiemark. EC is not an innocent bystander whose research is 'being used' in publicity.

    She is right at the heart of the publicity, going on the media herself and spreading her misinformation about the value and quality of her research.

    It was she who was all over the broadcast media telling the world how wonderful her FITNET trial was because it would help lots of sick children. And that was before the research started. By doing this she scuppered any objectivity in the trial, making it a massive waste of £1 million.

    Don't be taken in by her plea for better research. She is the perpetrator of some of the worst research ever seen into ME. It is a travesty of science and a danger to children with ME.

    Edit to add: I may have misunderstood your comment, @markiemark. You make some good points. I just thought you were too trusting of some of her statements.
     
    bobbler, Inara, Justy and 20 others like this.
  3. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    1,678
    Might I suggest to anyone wanting to comment on the talk,

    • Ask about the technology of magic circles and shouting STOP.
    • Ask why this was not disclosed in the talk.
    • Don't bombard with papers and links.
    • Ask if they would agree with their child keeping 'secrets' with a stranger.
    You can't shame people without shame, but you can embarrass people for believing and hosting.

    It would only take a few of them to ask questions.
     
    Inara, TigerLilea, Justy and 19 others like this.
  4. EzzieD

    EzzieD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Someone please correct me if wrong, but from what I've seen, what she's claiming was an email to herself was actually a mock-up of a phone call to Simon Wessely and was created by an artist at the Sunday Times:

    https://twitter.com/user/status/923343251222024193
     
    Inara, Justy, MEMarge and 13 others like this.
  5. markiemark

    markiemark Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Absolutely @Trish ! That's why i don't understand how she feels she can get away with saying this stuff. If these really are her ethical values then why is acting against them so vehemently. The summary of my big post was basically: she is a massive hypocrite. ha ha
     
    bobbler, MEMarge, Solstice and 12 others like this.
  6. Allele

    Allele Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Sasha, yes, you are supposed to be confused. That's what gaslighting is.
     
    bobbler, Inara, Justy and 15 others like this.
  7. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks, Ezzie, but we still seem to be getting our info indirectly (from an Andy Hugh now).

    I don't mean to be picky but in the past I've seen BPS people misquoted and while I understand that they're not popular and have a lot to answer for, I think it's important that if we're going to call someone a liar on this site that we have our facts absolutely nailed down and are using direct quotes from authoritative/primary sources.

    People may well start writing complaints about her and tweeting about this all over the place and it would reflect very badly on us if the basis for that wasn't solid.
     
    bobbler, Justy, MEMarge and 10 others like this.
  8. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

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    4,675
    https://twitter.com/user/status/926092805965074433
     
    Inara, Justy, MEMarge and 20 others like this.
  9. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    3,324
    ME Association needs to very publicly pull out of CMRC, now. Enough is enough. What more will it take for Charles Shepherd to accept that the MEA's continued support of the CMRC is enabling.
     
    bobbler, Inara, Justy and 10 others like this.
  10. Valentijn

    Valentijn Guest

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    The article itself (paywalled) claims that the ball-cutting threat was made to Simon Wessely via a phone call. Presumably it wasn't recorded and we just have to take his word for that. But it certainly wasn't an email sent to Esther Crawley.

    The parts which do involve Crawley:
    Full text of article at http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ng-article-in-sunday-times.23050/#post-352572

    I think the recent FOIA request to Crawley's university covered most or all of that time frame, and no threats were reported to the university in that time.
     
    Hutan, Inara, Justy and 22 others like this.
  11. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It would be good if this Gill would make a public statement.
     
    Justy, MEMarge, Solstice and 14 others like this.
  12. EzzieD

    EzzieD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I understand what you're saying. I went off looking for a tweet I'd read a few days back in which Mat Gill, the Sunday Times artist, had said he wasn't happy about his artwork being used in this way, but couldn't find it. But I see Cheshire has now posted a tweet above that says similar, thanks for that.

    ET: re: "It would be good if this Gill would make a public statement.", yes, that would be great.
     
    MEMarge, Solstice, Woolie and 8 others like this.
  13. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Inara, Woolie, ladycatlover and 4 others like this.
  14. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    A copy is available on eBay if anybody else wants to say that they've received a threatening letter...
    Code:
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JULIE-BURCHILL-CAMILLA-LONG-Sunday-Times-Magazine-May-5-2013/401428523281?hash=item5d77012911:g:CfYAAOSwImRYkvRx
    Copy and paste the URL if you are really interested to see it.
     
  15. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks for understanding, Ezzie! We've still got Gill's views being reported by a third party and I think it really is important to get these things first-hand.
     
  16. Allele

    Allele Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    If that's true about Gill, it would explain why the video talk is no longer available.
     
    Inara, Hutan, Woolie and 5 others like this.
  17. large donner

    large donner Guest

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    1,214
    Is it possible that the wording is from an email she is claiming to have received but the Times mock up was done by the journalist?
     
    Inara and Luther Blissett like this.
  18. Valentijn

    Valentijn Guest

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    No, the text of the article indicates the only mention of balls was in a puported phone call to Wessely. The only threat Crawley claimed to receive in that article is an email saying "you will all pay."
     
    Inara, MEMarge, Solstice and 10 others like this.
  19. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    From the original Sunday Times article SW as quoted as saying "The person who telephoned him to say, "We will come and get you soon", did not leave a name or address, nor did the man who said he was going to "come and cut your balls off"

    EC said "Things soon got worse for Crawley - death threats, mostly online." and

    "She showed me some of the emails.

    In one she is referred to as an "evil bastard".

    Another reads: "To those of you who are responsible for preventing us sick ME sufferers from getting the help we need, wasting £5m on flawed bullshit and trying to discredit the real scientists who are trying to help us, you will all pay."

    Is "you will pay" a threat?"

    I recognize the graphic she uses as the one of the Sunday Times article in 2013. It was the front page to their magazine that day.

    So, the top line about Evil Bastard(s) may be from her email with an "S" added or it could easy have come from another doctor if they reported the same thing. The 2nd line about cutting balls off came from SW according to the Sunday Times article and was from a telephone call.

    The other quotes I can't find a reference to where they came from
     
    Aimossy, Woolie, ladycatlover and 6 others like this.
  20. Liv aka Mrs Sowester

    Liv aka Mrs Sowester Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Sorry, but do we have a link to today's Crawley talk?
    The earlier link posted by @Cheshire now takes you to two people improvising 'mystical sounds' for a painful eternity?
     
    Moosie, Sly Saint and ladycatlover like this.

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