Eccentric medium spiny neuron (eMSN)

On the topic of links to the striatum, next to eMSN, HTT, and GPR52, there's also TSHZ3, which was a significant hit in Paolo's meta-analysis (not DecodeME alone).

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A bit more speculative perhaps, but knockout experiments of these genes in mice found changes in corticostriatal glutamatergic transmission. This was in the context of autism research.
These conditional Tshz3 knockout mice exhibit altered cortical expression of more than 1000 genes, ∼50% of which have their human orthologue involved in ASD, in particular genes encoding for glutamatergic synapse components. Consistently, we detected electrophysiological and synaptic changes in CPNs and impaired corticostriatal transmission and plasticity. Furthermore, these mice showed strong ASD-like behavioral deficits.
Postnatal Tshz3 Deletion Drives Altered Corticostriatal Function and Autism Spectrum Disorder-like Behavior - PubMed
 
The next major data source is the brain atlas by Siletti et al. 2023.
Transcriptomic diversity of cell types across the adult human brain - PubMed

They did the same single-cell RNA sequencing of the brain but in 3 human donors. They found 461 clusters for cell types, but there were also 31 superclusters that form larger groups. Interestingly, eMSN were one of these superclusters, which indicates that their genetic profile really sets them apart; they aren't just a minor modification of MSN.

Here's a nice overview of the results:
1779455752328.png

This graph shows where the eMSN (my highlighting in yellow) are mostly found. Mostly in the cerebral nuclei but also a bit in the cortex, thalamus, and hypothalamus.
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These two papers, the mouse atlas by Saunders et al. 2018 (sometimes called DropViz) and the human brain atlas by Siletti et al. are the two main data sources that Paolo also used in his analysis. He took the DNA results of ME/CFS patients and checked how these compared to the cell types specified in these two studies.
 
A clarification that I didn't notice before: the human atlas mentions that most eMSN only have DRD1. Those with both DRD1 and DRD2 were a regional specialization in the basal ganglia.
Two superclusters corresponded to the cerebral nuclei’s dopamine receptor–expressing medium spiny neurons (MSNs) and CASZ1+ eccentric MSNs(Fig. 2A; fig. S2, A to F; and Materials and methods) (5). Most eccentric MSNs expressed only DRD1, but many in the basal ganglia coexpressed DRD1 and DRD2, suggesting regional specialization
EDIT: here's figure 2 form the supplementary material:

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Would it be worth contacting Saunders [no relation] or any of the other authors about the possible connection to ME/CFS?
Possibly, but their paper mapped out the entire brain, and their data is relevant for 100s of medical conditions. It wasn't focused on eMSN in particular; they just happened to find it when mapping the entire brain.

But with eMSN being largely unknown and there being a connection to ME/CFS, I think this opens up a lot of research options, including animal models where they can better study how these cells behave (i.e. do they play a role in sickness behavior?). Suspect there are lots of research groups that can do this type of work. We also need brain studies focused on the striatal region.

Once we have written out our thoughts on this, it might be worth doing outreach emails to teams with the right expertise. For the first time in 40 years, ME/CFS research might have a solid lead.
 
I see dopamine mentioned quite a bit in the eMSN discussions. Could the way Abilify works affect the functioning of eMSN? I thought it interesting with anecdotal stories from people where Abilify helped how many of them found that they each had their own sweet spot for Abilify dose level - not too much, not too little - especially interesting if eMSN do have both D1 and D2 receptors?

I had no luck asking the internet. S4ME is now quoted in many answers.
 
One caveat is that the eMSN data is relatively new, discovered in 2018 and included in the human brain atlas in 2023.

So a lot of GWAS from other diseases might not have tested for this cell type yet. Perhaps if they did, it would be connected to a lot of brain diseases and behavioral traits and turn out to be not very specific to ME/CFS.
 
This study (Anderson et al. 2020) tested a FOXP1 knockout model in mice. FOXP1 is a gene that is important in the development of the striatum and has been linked to autism and intellectual disability. The study found that deleting FOXP1 led to more 2-4 fold increases in eMSN.

So the idea is that MSNs are kept away from an eccentric state by FOXP1, and removing it pushes ordinary MSNs towards an eMSN state.
Single-Cell Analysis of Foxp1-Driven Mechanisms Essential for Striatal Development - PubMed

Summary by the Simmons Foundation, which helped fund the study:
 
This study (Anderson et al. 2020) tested a FOXP1 knockout model in mice. FOXP1 is a gene that is important in the development of the striatum and has been linked to autism and intellectual disability. The study found that deleting FOXP1 led to more 2-4 fold increases in eMSN.

So the idea is that MSNs are kept away from an eccentric state by FOXP1, and removing it pushes ordinary MSNs towards an eMSN state.
Single-Cell Analysis of Foxp1-Driven Mechanisms Essential for Striatal Development - PubMed

Summary by the Simmons Foundation, which helped fund the study:
Some relevant links


 
So in laymans terms is it possible there's a story here that could go something like t cells> ifng> foxp4>foxp1>eMSNs

Or @hotblacks NK cells or similar on the immune end? I have just discovered NK cells produce IFNy too (probably not news to most of you!)

It's all a bit six degrees of separation though isn't it?
Edit: Just quoted this post earlier to save energy but the relevant part to what was posted above is that the forkhead box protein (FOXP) transcriptional network is apparantly induced by IFNy, amongst other 'inflammatory' signals.
 
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I don’t have much experience with this but I suspect the conditional analysis shown in figure 4 below tells the same story. The blue square that eMSN form show they cancel each other out indicating a signal across the genome. If it were just a couple of genes associated with ME/CFS, then there would be more asymmetry if you condition one eMSN on another (if I understand correctly).
Am afraid this interpretation of the conditional plot on signal depth across the genome is not correct, because Paolo's supplementary material S5 lists only a couple of genes per cell type tested. These are likely the 'specifically expressed genes (SEGs)' discussed in section 2.6.3.
So that makes it more likely that the eMSN signal is confounded by a smaller group of genes or another process that happens to be common on eMSN but isn't specific to them.

The signal for the other glutamergic cell types does look independent (red lines in the plot). Perhaps that suggests that eMSN isn't solely driven by glutamergic signalling, but it would be good to hear others' interpretation of this.

I wonder if there's a way to test this by leaving out certain genes to get a better view of what's driving the signal for eMSN.
 
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Am afraid this interpretation of the conditional plot on signal depth across the genome is not correct,

The basic idea of this plot is:

MAGMA is used to identify which cell types exhibit gene expression profiles which are significantly associated with MAGMA gene scores (which are based on GWAS significance of variants around each gene). Just regular MAGMA for this step.

Say we identify that eMSNs in the cortex, eMSNs in the cerebellum, and glutamatergic cells in the amygdala are all significant in the above analysis. There's a possibility that different tested cell types are very similar in gene expression, in which case one cell type might be MAGMA significant due to being important, and the others significant due to being very similar in gene expression to the important cell type.

So the goal is to identify independent signals that don't rely on similarity of expression between cell types. The MAGMA regression is run, testing if gene expression in, for example, eMSNs in the cortex is associated with gene scores, while controlling for gene expression in eMSNs in the cerebellum. If this is no longer significant, we can say the signal in the former cell type is not independent of the signal in the latter cell type, and may be due to the similarity of the cell types.

The plot is showing the result of each pairwise regression.

A red square indicates that the MAGMA p-value did not decrease much for a cell type, even after controlling for the other cell type, suggesting an independent signal. When a square is blue, or at the most extreme end, grey with a star, it means the p-value substantially decreases when controlling for the other, suggesting that there may be a shared signal responsible for both cell types being significant.

We see red squares when testing glutamatergic neurons controlled for eMSNs, suggesting that these are independent signals. We see blue squares when testing glutamatergic neurons controlled for other glutamatergic neurons, suggesting they are very similar and thus one might be significant just because the other is.

Essentially, it's showing that eMSNs are significant, and this is not due to the similarity to glutamatergic neurons, and vice versa. Most of the different eMSN cell types, on the other hand, appear to not be independent from each other. It's kind of like two loci in a GWAS manhattan plot. The variants within a locus are not independent of each other (due to being correlated to each other), but the variants between loci are.

The procedure is described in Watanabe 2019:
The last step is to unravel relationships between significantly associated cell types across datasets. Although the absolute gene expression values in different datasets are not directly comparable, cross-datasets (CD) conditional analysis allows us to test the extent to which the significant gene expression profiles found in different data sets reflect the same or similar association signals. The analysis is performed for all possible CD pairs of significant cell types retained from the second step (see “Methods” section for details). Then the PS [proportional significance] of the CD conditional P-value of a cell type relative to the CD marginal P-value is computed for each cell type of all possible pairs. In this step, the pair-wise conditional analysis provides an overview of independent clusters of signals associated with a trait.
 
We see red squares when testing glutamatergic neurons controlled for eMSNs, suggesting that these are independent signals. We see blue squares when testing glutamatergic neurons controlled for other glutamatergic neurons, suggesting they are very similar and thus one might be significant just because the other is.
Thanks, guess I was trying to read too much into it, namely whether it really points to eMSN or a particular process or group of genes on them.

Cerebellum
Regarding that other cell type, these are glutamergic neurons from the Seeker 2023 white matter database, so a bit of an unusual category. Paolo's paper mentions that these are likely interstitial white matter neurons (IWMNs) in the cerebellum, but I suspect there's a concern it might contain contamination from imperfect separation of gray and white matter and so an arbitrary grouping. The cerebellum was the most significant tissue, so perhaps it's worth making a separate thread on this and the Seeker 2023 results.

Intratelencephalic
Another thing I noticed is that there are a lot of "intratelencephalic (IT)" neurons in the cell categories that just didn't reach bh-significance.

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And one of the hits that trafalmadorian97 found was intra-encephalic neurons (deep-layer, though instead of upper-layer in Paolo's analysis). One explanation for this might be that these are IT neurons providing the glutamergic input from the cortex to MSN and eMSN in the striatum. So perhaps we should make a separate thread for these IT neurons as well.
decode-me-hba-magma

@tralfamadorian97 would it be possible to share the data results of your cell tissue analysis shown in the graph above? Is there, for example, more info on the cell types? It would be interesting to look at what explains the differences within each supercluster. What makes these two dots of IT cells so different from the other IT dots?

Unfortunately, the FUMA/MAGMA website is currently down for maintenance, but perhaps there are more databases that we can test for cell types?
 

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Unfortunately, the FUMA/MAGMA website is currently down for maintenance but perhaps there are more databases that we can test for cell types?
I previously used FUMA to do the cell type analysis on DecodeME using 86 different brain cell datasets: https://www.s4me.info/threads/initi...2025-decodeme-collaboration.45490/post-636188

The most significant cell type was a specific excitatory neuron (Exc_L2_3_RORB_RTKN2) in the primary motor cortex, but there were other similarly significant cells in the motor cortex, as well as in other regions of the cerebral cortex. This motor cortex neuron signal was independent of another signal from GABAergic cells in the cerebellum.

For that specific excitatory neuron, I previously looked at the paper the motor cortex dataset came from (Bakken 2021), and it gave this description of the neuron (from Supplementary Table 1):
Layer 2-3 Intratelencephalic human primary motor cortex Glutamatergic neuron that selectively expresses LOC101927745, and LOC105376987, and PLCH1, and RMST mRNAs
 
@tralfamadorian97 would it be possible to share the data results of your cell tissue analysis shown in the graph above
Here is a dropbox link with:
  • Data underlying the HBA MAGMA plot for DecodeME
  • Supplementary material from the Duncan et al. paper "Mapping the cellular etiology of schizophrenia and complex brain phenotypes" which I used to annotate the cell types in the plot.
 
For that specific excitatory neuron, I previously looked at the paper the motor cortex dataset came from (Bakken 2021), and it gave this description of the neuron (from Supplementary Table 1):
Thanks, so that might point to the same Intratelencephalic (IT) glutamergic neurons as mentioned above but using another database (of the motor cortex only).
 
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