Dehydration-like feeling next day after exertion?

This is beginning to look like it should be in the diagnostic criteria ;):D

Yep, count me in, too. That dry mouth/thirsty feeling is an early PEM feature. Drinking, even electrolytes, only helps briefly.

The peeing follows soon after despite no major change in fluid intake. In the scheme of PEM it's minor but it's still annoying because the to and fro between bed and bathroom adds so many extra steps just when you can least afford extra steps.

I'm wondering if it's a change in blood sugar our bodies are sensing? My blood sugar goes up in PEM, not drastically, just from middle of normal range to high end of normal range or sometimes a little into pre-diabetic territory. So the absolute glucose level shouldn't be causing any symptoms but maybe it's the sudden change? In my case the dry mouth/thirst and the peeing are only there in early PEM but the blood sugar stays high right through. That would fit with the change=symptoms theory.
 
Ravn said:
This is beginning to look like it should be in the diagnostic criteria ;):D

Yep, count me in, too. That dry mouth/thirsty feeling is an early PEM feature. Drinking, even electrolytes, only helps briefly.

The peeing follows soon after despite no major change in fluid intake. In the scheme of PEM it's minor but it's still annoying because the to and fro between bed and bathroom adds so many extra steps just when you can least afford extra steps.

I'm wondering if it's a change in blood sugar our bodies are sensing? My blood sugar goes up in PEM, not drastically, just from middle of normal range to high end of normal range or sometimes a little into pre-diabetic territory. So the absolute glucose level shouldn't be causing any symptoms but maybe it's the sudden change? In my case the dry mouth/thirst and the peeing are only there in early PEM but the blood sugar stays high right through. That would fit with the change=symptoms theory.
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Sometimes makes me limit my water intake as it just causes too much movement for me when I'm in PEM :(

I don't think a sudden change in blood sugar would cause this, what happens in diabetes is that the absorption of glucose from preurine back to blood gets overwhelmed and glucose then ends up in the urine. The threshold for when this happens should be higher than "a little into prediabetic theory", although it can vary it should be capable of handling a sudden change as it is not normally running at its highest capacity. Unless our pee becomes diluted because excess water is being taken from the body to deal with the sugary urine I don't think this is what happens to us (I've kept water intake/output diaries since I had this checked out, I don't lose excess fluid, and my kidneys are capable of concentrationg urine so it doesn't seem to be a problem of osmotic diuresis, but water doesn't seem to stick around in the body as I am after all dehydrated). I don't suppose you've checked your urine for glucose as well as your blood (boy that's a weird question to ask, but I find it interesting that your blood sugar goes up :bag:).

Another thing with PEM could be that the nerves of the bladder that senses when it's full become a bit oversensitive? Like sound or light sensitivity? I have no idea if that could happen.

Edit: I hope something like this become available in the future: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/08/190816191428.htm
 
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Blood sugar going up is a normal response to 'illness' - apparently happens to everyone, diabetic or not.

Not at all unusual.

It also tends to happen in the morning, wake up, liver starts pumping out the damn stuff just to help you cope with all the tigers it thinks may exists in your living room.
 
To me, it feels like poisoning.

I often describe ME as feeling like "the worst flu of your life combined with a hangover". The reference to 'hangover' was my way of attempting to find a common phenomenon that is easily understood by most people. Given that a hangover may be a mild form of poisoning, my thought is that people with ME are also being poisoned somehow.

The increased urination and thirst during PEM feels like the body trying to deal with something toxic.
 
Art Vandelay said:
To me, it feels like poisoning.

I often describe ME as feeling like "the worst flu of your life combined with a hangover". The reference to 'hangover' was my way of attempting to find a common phenomenon that is easily understood by most people. Given that a hangover may be a mild form of poisoning, my thought is that people with ME are also being poisoned somehow.

The increased urination and thirst during PEM feels like the body trying to deal with something toxic.
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Yes it feels like poisoning. Every so often it gets quite bad to the point of retching and retching.

Amw66 said:
How many who have responded also have POTS/ similar OI issues?
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I've never been diagnosed but I have had something major going on in regards to POTS, not as bad now as my severe years but it still is extremely debilitating.
 
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I know I’m in for a bad day when I wake up with really gluey, thick saliva that no amount of fluid seems to deal with, though I don’t get the peeing part so much.

I also have POTS and am being investigated (very, very slowly, cheers COVID) for possible Sjogren’s Syndrome as well because of other weird stuff going on, but the thick, gluey saliva thing has predated all of the other possible Sjogrens symptoms and has been with me from the start of my ME symptoms over twelve years ago.
 
Amw66 said:
How many who have responded also have POTS/ similar OI issues?
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I have POTS and consider dysregulation of water intake/use a major part of my illness. It is a complete failure of homeostasis in tune with my lack of temperature control also. There are many aspects of my illness linked to a lack of homeostasis.

I take Fludrocortisone to help with the dehydration, it made a massive difference to nighttime and allowed me to sleep much better.

It, (dehydration issues) definitely should be included in diagnosis and treatment recommendations. I had to discover for myself the need to drink excess water to maintain some feeling of normality, especially drinking a full glass of water in a morning before I get up. This was transformative for me and is such a simple thing for doctors to recommend.
 
I feel dehydrated not thirsty. I also feel hot during PEM, and drinking a lot of fluid doesn't relieve symptoms.
 
I feel like the fluid intake situation seems to fluctuate as much as food intake. I can go for long periods not drinking much or anything even forgetting to drink cuppas I’ve made. Then at other times I can still feel thirsty just after necking 1/2 a pint of water. Same with food either I’m not hungry at all, verging on slightly nauseous, or I can’t stop feeling hungry.
 
I feel very dehydrated during PEM too. And get that poisoned/hungover feeling.

strategist said:
Has the effect of exertion on water balance or relevant hormones in ME/CFS ever been studied?
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I recently started taking a vitamin B complex. As anyone who takes this will know, it makes your urine bright yellow, but I noticed something peculiar - during my most recent bout of PEM, there was a much longer transit time.

It took nearly seven hours for my urine to turn yellow, whereas on the following PEM free day, it took 3 hours.

I have only been taking it for a few weeks, and only just noticed this delay, so not sure if it will happen again, but will pay attention from now on.

Has anyone else who takes a B complex noticed this? Or any other supplements or medications that change the urine in an easily observable way?

If so, can you please count your transit time during PEM too, and report back?

I realise it probably means nothing, but just curious. Also wondering if any researchers have done any studies into transit times of urine in PEM...if not, it would be quite easy to do, wouldn't it? I know they use dyes for such tests.

I wonder if it could be specific to the b vitamins, and how they are processed? (Might have to buy some asparagus...)
 
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