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You make me tired: An experimental test of the role of interpersonal operant conditioning in fatigue 2018 Bert Lenaert et al

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic research - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by JohnTheJack, Feb 8, 2018.

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  1. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    JohnTheJack, Feb 8, 2018
    #1
    chrisb, Joh, MEMarge and 9 others like this.
  2. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Shit like this then leads to children getting taken away from their families.
     
    strategist, Feb 8, 2018
    #2
    chrisb, Joh, MEMarge and 13 others like this.
  3. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

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    Where are these people living? What social reward for being "fatigued" are they talking about?
    Time to land and get back to real life, you lazy researchers. Rewards for being ill mainly exist in psychological books.
     
    Cheshire, Feb 8, 2018
    #3
    lycaena, EzzieD, chrisb and 14 others like this.
  4. Effi

    Effi Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Effi, Feb 8, 2018
    #4
    chrisb, Joh, MEMarge and 3 others like this.
  5. ladycatlover

    ladycatlover Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    :scream: :wtf: :banghead: :bawling: :walkingdead :yuck: :ill: :eek: :thumbsdown: :sick: :grumpy: :facepalm: :mad: :mad: :mad: Thought we had a barf emoji, but obviously not. Hope expressed well enough with my little collection! ;)

    What is wrong with these people? They call us crazy, but they are the insanely crazy ones, and what makes me so mad is they get PAID to put out all this utter libelous rubbish about sick people. Grrrrr. :arghh: :arghh: :arghh:
     
    ladycatlover, Feb 8, 2018
    #5
    EzzieD, chrisb, Joh and 11 others like this.
  6. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    I've had ME for 4 years and I've yet to receive my reward. When's it coming? If it carries on like this I'm considering giving up and pretending to have something else.

    Why don't alleged ME sufferers just stop pretending more often by the way? Being ignored, belittled, abused, starved and locked up isn't much of a reward. Surely more ME sufferers should realise it's a mug's game and just stop.
     
    TiredSam, Feb 11, 2018
    #6
    Simon M, NelliePledge, Solstice and 16 others like this.
  7. JemPD

    JemPD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Indeed.
     
    JemPD, Feb 11, 2018
    #7
    Solstice, ladycatlover, Luther Blissett and 5 others like this.
  8. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Exactly!

    I had this discussion with a psych during an Incapacity Benefit assessment (now ESA). I told her that I could absolutely understand the need to check I was telling the truth, but if I was going to lie, why pick the one disease that no one believes in and means that everyone views you with disgust?
     
    Invisible Woman, Feb 11, 2018
    #8
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  9. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    My guess is that she raised one eyebrow and wrote "masochistic tendencies" on the form.
     
    TiredSam, Feb 11, 2018
    #9
    ScottTriGuy, Skycloud, Solstice and 14 others like this.
  10. MEMarge

    MEMarge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Loving this thread for the comments.

    Not for the tripe aka psych "research". Shame that we need to know about all this. Anyone with time to review these papers for the rubbish they are?
     
    MEMarge, Feb 11, 2018
    #10
    ladycatlover, Luther Blissett, Invisible Woman and 3 others like this.
  11. Joh

    Joh Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    They're all 3 from Maastricht university (the Netherlands).

    Their revolutionary research plan (I would be ashamed to write this down and hand it in to get approval, it sounds like a joke):

    1. group:
    2. group:
    Did they have "research meetings" to discuss how disapproval is shown best and practiced slight frowning with mirrors? Would love to see the official handbook.
     
    Joh, Feb 11, 2018
    #11
    Solstice, ladycatlover, Trish and 7 others like this.
  12. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd be interested to know what they considered to be "subtle social reward" too. I wouldn't find a psychologist leering at me ingratiatingly particularly rewarding, and if one frowned at me I'd just find it funny. How did they reward the patients who couldn't give a f*** what the psych thinks of them? Give them a chocolate biscuit?

    These psychs are assuming that their approval or disapproval is of any concern whatsoever to the patient, which is an arrogant assumption. They are also overestimating their own acting skills. A psychologist with a pathalogical hatred of the patient trying to look friendly - what do they think their face looks like?
     
    TiredSam, Feb 11, 2018
    #12
    Skycloud, Solstice, ladycatlover and 10 others like this.
  13. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    Trish, Feb 11, 2018
    #13
    NelliePledge, Skycloud, Solstice and 13 others like this.
  14. Joh

    Joh Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    :laugh: This made me laugh, thanks. Because I liked it so much, here's another example of "a psychologist with a pathalogical hatred of the patient trying to look friendly".

    "Well done. I'm happy that you're fatigued and I'm sure your parents must be very proud. Tell me more about it."

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
    Joh, Feb 11, 2018
    #14
    Skycloud, Solstice, ladycatlover and 11 others like this.
  15. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    :laugh:

    I don't think they understand the concept of self reflection.

    Maybe being graced with their presence is the 'subtle social reward'?

    Edited to add: You are our subtle social reward @TiredSam
     
    Luther Blissett, Feb 11, 2018
    #15
    Solstice, ladycatlover, Trish and 5 others like this.
  16. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Is that them green with envy over all our lovely secondary illness benefits @Trish ?

    :rofl::rofl:
     
    Invisible Woman, Feb 11, 2018
    #16
    Solstice, ladycatlover, Luther Blissett and 5 others like this.
  17. BruceInOz

    BruceInOz Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I have only read the abstract but haven't they just demonstrated that subjective questionnaire responses can be influenced by researcher bias?
     
    BruceInOz, Feb 12, 2018
    #17
    NelliePledge, Invisible Woman, Solstice and 5 others like this.
  18. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    Clueless
    What sort of reward is trying to work with this illness you can’t even manage a few hours a week after 2 years then you speak to a Dr who actually has a clue who says you’ve had it for 10 years or more all the time you’ve been flogging yourself at work working extra hard to compensate for being off sick more than everyone else. Any career prospects out of the window just running to keep up. Yes I’ve really got a lot of benefit from that. Bullocks

    No doubt by going off on one I’ve proved I need psych help. Grrrhhh
     
    NelliePledge, Feb 13, 2018
    #18
    Indigophoton, Nancy Blackett, Skycloud and 3 others like this.

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