Preprint Wearable heart rate variability monitoring identifies autonomic dysfunction and thresholds for post-exertional malaise in Long COVID, 2025, Ruijgt+

Discussion in 'Long Covid research' started by forestglip, Mar 20, 2025.

  1. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    The paper notes that HRV varies with sex and age. It says that the control group was matched on sex and age, which is great, but there was a higher percentage of males in the control group (47.6% versus 31.0% - surprisingly, this was reported with a p value indicating it was not a statistically significant difference, but it seems like an important difference).

    There was a significant difference in BMI (23.1 for the controls versus 25.7).

    I think the differences in sex ratio and BMI (and presumably baseline fitness) are a problem. I think we would need to see this study replicated with carefully matched controls. As @Yann04 said, it would be great to see the study done with chronic illness controls.
     
  2. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    The authors suggest that lower HRV has been repeatedly reported in long Covid and the lack of a rebound after exercise has been reported in ME/CFS.

    I agree with @poetinsf, I don't think this idea of keeping below the heart rate associated with the ventilatory threshold in order to avoid triggering PEM has been proven.

    It's worth noting that the patients were advised to restrict physical activity for three to six weeks, as in, not exceeding the heart rate associated with the ventilatory threshold. The control group was not given that advice. Three to six weeks could have been long enough to change someone's fitness, regardless of the level of fitness before that.

     
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  3. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There's probably some of that in general, but 2 years ago when I developed POTS and I started monitoring my vitals, I saw my HRV go from about low 30s on average to my current average of 60s over the course of about 6 months, and I wasn't doing any exercises of any kind. So HRV may be affected by conditioning, but it isn't a direct relationship.

    Also related, but in the last year or so, especially the last 3 months, I have significantly improved, function a lot more, and although I'm still not fit by stretch of the imagination, I am definitely much more conditioned than I was a year ago, with no change to my HRV.

    It's also very noticeable how my HRV changes from immune challenges, whether an acute illness (strep A, then later COVID), but also from vaccination.

    HRV seems related to conditioning, but it's definitely not a simple relationship of more fit = higher or more stable HRV.
     
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  4. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Sports physician Kasper Janssen, who's the co-author of the paper, gave a talk recently about how he uses the HRV. You can turn on the auto-translator in the captions section.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vFdS9NejbA


     
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  5. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    That's an interesting talk. The pace is fast and the translation is a bit off, so it makes it hard to get all the points

    Janssen explains what causes HRV at 12 minutes. When you breath out, the rib cage contracts, leaving the heart less space to pump. So the heart rate slows down. When you breathe in, the rib cage expands, making the operation of the heart easier, so the heart rate speeds up.

    So, breathing rate is relevant. So too is the function of the nerves that sense what is going on and adjusts the heart's operation.

    Janssen also talks about various wearables and their apps.

    He strongly suggests avoiding alcohol. Also, short episodes of exercise that does not lift the heart rate over the heart rate at the anaerobic threshold.
     
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  6. Utsikt

    Utsikt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That sounds like a very dangerous suggestion.
     

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