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United Kingdom: London - Persistent Physical Symptoms Research and Treatment Unit - Kings College London; South London and Maudsley NHS Trust

Discussion in 'UK clinics and doctors' started by Sly Saint, Apr 6, 2020.

  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    for the rogues gallery of the 50 members of this team see

    https://www.kcl.ac.uk/research/persistent-physical-symptoms-research-and-treatment-unit-1
     
    Woolie, Ash, Barry and 9 others like this.
  2. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    Sets up a unit claiming to investigate CFS - calls it the Persistent Physical Symptoms Research and Treatment Unit.

    How stupid must they think we are? Either that or how stupid must they be?

    And if you check the studies tab, the listed 'CFS' studies don't show...
     
  3. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    And the expected benefit of duplicating the work of the LSHTM biobank, located in the same city, is? Oh, right, probably because it had to be funded by the US NIH to actually get off the ground and that looks kind of bad and they're doing real research anyway so that's kind of threatening to the survival of the BPS belief system they operate with.

    I guess that's the way NIHR can pretend to fund biomedical research, it gives it away to a unit that cosplays as biomedical but actually intends to do psychometric questionnaire marathons. I'm not sure if they expect this to count but it definitely does not. Chalder is part of the team, all your questionnaires are belong to them.

    This school of thought has operated fully independent of the actual researchers in the field, never mixing or cooperating, and will still be doing that even though it's clear that doing more isolated efforts is a complete waste of time, especially as it looks like they're basically about to redo the early Wessely stuff, not even doing much new research. It frankly looks like an experiment in waste, pretending to do research so they can end up saying "welp, we tried (again) so there's definitely no there there".

    It will be difficult for them to recruit actual ME patients, especially given the pandemic circumstances. Not that they'd likely care much anyway, it looks more like generic idiopathic fatigue, whatever dozens of meanings they have for that.
     
  4. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    You'd think, with all those brains focused on our health, it might occur to one of them to look more closely at the so called evidence for GET/CBT and realise it's a castle built on sand.
     
    Joan Crawford, Lidia, Ash and 12 others like this.
  5. lunarainbows

    lunarainbows Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I don’t understand what the point of this is. Quite fed up of these institutions doing yet another new but same old thing.. I thought the PACE and PRINCE trials were bad enough

    So they’re going to do “biological” studies while at the same time still prescribing and carrying out CBT & GET?

    I’m pretty sure this is going to come crashing down at some point soon when the new NICE guidelines get released anyway (I mean, I hope so, that’s what I would presume, because there’s no evidence for GET &CBT?). So they only have a bit of time to do this. What’s the point of this really?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2020
    Ash, andypants, ladycatlover and 3 others like this.
  6. wigglethemouse

    wigglethemouse Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    And there is Trudie Chalder (referrals tab)
     
    Ash, ladycatlover, Hutan and 2 others like this.
  7. It's M.E. Linda

    It's M.E. Linda Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Naive question here.
    How is NIHR independent & able to make decisions re funding for research, if it is in Partnership with a particular ‘research group’?

    @EspeMor - please can Forward-ME and APPG on ME consider investigating this announcement a bit further?
     
    Ash, MEMarge, ladycatlover and 6 others like this.
  8. It's M.E. Linda

    It's M.E. Linda Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Sorry - :banghead::banghead::banghead:
     
  9. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Utter sh***...... The only things that have helped me & made my life bearable in the last decades.

    But then as Michael Sharpe put it they do like to be the only show in town.

    Each and every one of these individuals is a complete waste of salary.
     
  10. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    https://www.nihr.ac.uk/explore-nihr/support/experimental-medicine.htm

    The link given for the particular Biomedical Research Centre above doesn't work, this seems to be a working alternative, https://www.kcl.ac.uk/lsm/research/divisions/hscr/research/biomedical-research-centre-(brc)

    I would interpret the fancy talk about being in partnership as meaning that they simply provide funding.
     
  11. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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  12. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The work of this group always puts me in mind of therapy dogs. We are the therapy dogs and our purpose is to make them feel needed, important and fulfilled in their work.

    To me this is the core of what's going on here. Their need is so great no amount of outside reality will penetrate their armour.

    Also, this is necessarily their end-game. They need this. If this move into 'biological' research doesn't help everyone believe in their worldview of BPS for all they're left with nothing.
     
    rainy, andypants, Michelle and 12 others like this.
  13. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Interesting they don't make the same evidentiary claim about GET. Not that the evidence for CBT is any better.

    SOS. Same Old Shit.

    The delusion of control via scheduling and moderation runs deep in this mob. Still stuck on the Goldilocks prescription – not too little, not too much, just the right amount, and us experts can tell you just what that is.
     
    rainy, Michelle, MEMarge and 14 others like this.
  14. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  15. Cinders66

    Cinders66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Nihr havefingers in lots of unpalatable CFS pies. This, funding Crawleys work, behind the work that formed basis of damaging RCGP guidelines, all whilst sitting on the CMRC. It’s like when the science media centre were there two facing.
    they seem big on behaviour intervention generally possibly? I saw that they had in 2018 commissioned research into the rehabilitation of cognitive dysfunction in MS, it yielded a study which i think had minimal effect, Perhaps unsurprisingly. It wouldn’t surprise me if this were the type of research to be encouraged by the new James linden partnership thing.
     
  16. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think some of us, myself included, were hugely over-confident about progress being made after Matthees got the PACE data out. These people are so entrenched within medical research that they can simply come up with new ways of promoting and justifying quackery, regardless of what the evidence indicates about their impact on patients. I share your concerns about the James Lind process too.
     
    Barry, Nellie, Joh and 13 others like this.
  17. ladycatlover

    ladycatlover Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Quite entertained to see two of the names involved... Fear and Croak! :rofl: Nominative determinism lives! :rolleyes:
     
    Barry, Missense, NelliePledge and 3 others like this.
  18. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    "
    King's Centre for Military Health Research
    KCMHR Co-Directors
    Professor Sir Simon Wessely
    Co-Director KCMHR and ADMMH

    Professor Nicola Fear
    Co-Director of KCMHR and Reader in Epidemiology"

    eta: But of course we know that SW is 'no longer involved in CFS research'....
     
    Barry, Cheshire, Joh and 6 others like this.
  19. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Guilty, m'lord. :(

    It has been a real eye-opener for even this hard core cynic to see just how protected a species these mongrels are. o_O:grumpy:

    That said, there has been serious progress post-Matthees win. Just not in the UK, as yet.

    I think the real test is going to come with the NICE and Cochrane reviews. If they don't deliver, the system is completely broken.
     
  20. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Still making the discredited claim about deconditioning too.

    Seriously unimpressed they are allowed to keep getting away with it. :mad:
     

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