UK:ME Association funds research for a new clinical assessment toolkit in NHS ME/CFS specialist services, 2023

I have been told by someone who doesn't want to identify themself publicly that a few days after submitting the survey they were sent an email by Sarah Tyson with the link to do the follow up survey. Then they received another email saying to ignore it, as it was sent in error.

I hope this didn't happen to lots of people, and they didn't waste their energy doing the whole long survey again unnecessarily.
 
The ME Association appears to be in the game of systematically undermining and disempowering ME patients, the very people the MEA are supposed to represent.

We are powerless to influence the MEA, powerless to influence @sarahtyson, powerless to get her to see her statements here are beyond the pale, we are powerless to influence Cochrane, powerless to stop the relentless march of mind body cure scams.

In 30 years of illness I have never felt so powerless and totally without hope as right now.
 
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The ME Association appears to be in the game of systematically undermining and disempowering ME patients, the very people the MEA are supposed to represent. We are powerless to influence the MEA, powerless to influence @sarahtyson, powerless to get her to see her statements here are beyond the pale, we are powerless to influence Cochrane, powerless to stop the relentless march of mind body cure scams.

In 30 years of illness I have never felt so powerless and totally without hope as right now.

This.

I have spent the last few years doing everything I can to try and change... Any of this. ME, benefits, mental health...

It has contributed to my health deteriorating and now I wonder if anything I do or have done makes any difference at all or if I did nothing if we would be in exactly the same place: still screwed

My hope isn't dead, but it has taken a serious beating and is in need of life support
 
I’m sorry you feel powerless @Lou B Lou

I certainly think there are issues with this project and MEA hasn’t handled it well. They need to do better I think they have done a lot of positive stuff in the past and they deserve credit for that but certainly the leadership from the trustees needs addressing as it doesn’t seem equipped to take on board different points of view.
 
The powerlessness is not just a feeling. It's a reality. Most NHS Drs/HCPs either dont believe in ME or are so misinformed as to be dangerous to us. The media is still full of huge amounts of misinformation about ME. The general public still think they have rights to imaginatively speculate to solve 'the mystery' that is ME and so many have a huge sense of entitlement to pontificate their uninformed opinions about our disease .... and so on and on and on.

A few crumbs of hope are not enough. Some of us don't have enough years left to ever see a time the BPS and mind body juggernaut retreat, if they ever will.
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I have been told by someone who doesn't want to identify themself publicly that a few days after submitting the survey they were sent an email by Sarah Tyson with the link to do the follow up survey. Then they received another email saying to ignore it, as it was sent in error.

I hope this didn't happen to lots of people, and they didn't waste their energy doing the whole long survey again unnecessarily.
There’s a fair few complaints on the MEA Facebook post, Charles Shepherd has been replying, holding the line.
 
I’m sorry you feel powerless @Lou B Lou

I certainly think there are issues with this project and MEA hasn’t handled it well. They need to do better I think they have done a lot of positive stuff in the past and they deserve credit for that but certainly the leadership from the trustees needs addressing as it doesn’t seem equipped to take on board different points of view.
This a massive impact one the way it could be used is the issue. Ie a tool that could be used to undermine the progress made - and tbf was unnecessary to hand over to these people so it’s foxing why it’s happened

it’s very weird when you suddenly get someone only listening to the person who they owe nothing to and is speaking bombast and dropping the people they know speak sense and get science for them. It’s like a capturing
 
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There’s a fair few complaints on the MEA Facebook post, Charles Shepherd has been replying, holding the line.
Problem is the way the Facebook threads are working for these - because of the way the project is being sent via email so it doesn’t have a big advertising post when there is a new survey (I understand this is because of not 'recruiting' by social media to said survey)

this means unless someone selected notifications they know someone adding a comment is only seen by them - not the usual with social

it needs a fresh post on their page where it’s discussed and it’s interesting they’ve chosen to avoid that
 
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The Partipant information sheet pdf is dated 13th October 2023, so it's possible I read it when we did the first questionnaire. If so I've forgotten.

That first one, TIMES was a symptom list, so not too awful. We only realised how off beam the project was heading when we saw the second one, called PASS, that purported to be about PEM, but was an awful mess of ambiguity about symptoms after exertion. It was as a result of PASS, and Sarah Tyson's negative reaction to our comments on it, that we became seriously concerned about the project and wrote to the MEA trustees and received a dismissive reponse from the chair of Trustees.

I am intending to write up some comments on the third questionnaire when I find the energy after I've seen the second invitation to complete it which should be any day now.

From the instructions on the recent questionnaire:
If you would like more information about the toolkit project please read our patient information sheet here.

In the meantime, I propose to copy sections of the Patient information sheet here and comment on them here:
The project is led by Prof Sarah Tyson from the School of Health Sciences, University of Manchester, who has ME herself. Dr Peter Gladwell (North Bristol NHS Foundation Trust and BACME), Dr Keith Geraghty (University of Manchester), Dr Mike Horton (University of Leeds) and Russell Fleming (ME Association) are also on the research team.

What is the purpose of the research?
Our aim is to co-produce a series of patient reported outcome measures (PROMs) with people with ME/CFS (PwME/CFS) and clinicians in ME/CFS specialist services. This will help PwME/CFS and services identify, understand and quantify people’s symptoms and disabilities; support goal setting and treatment planning, and monitor changes.

Working with the PwME/CFS’s and clinicians’ advisory groups we have produced draft versions of the PROMs, which have a questionnaire format. They measure people’s symptoms; activity/ disability levels; post-exertional malaise; mood; clinical needs, and satisfaction with services (also known as a patient experience measure or PREM).

We have tried to make sure the PROMs capture the issues that are important to PwME/CFS and the forms are easy to complete, and to use in clinical practice (ie it fits in with other clinical processes and systems). We now need a large number of PwME/CFS to fill in the questionnaires (online) so we can complete a statistical analysis. This is called Rasch analysis and will enable us to remove any overlap between questions, remove any questions that don’t produce good quality information, and/or revise the wording of any questions which are unclear.

We will also explore how we can produce sub-scales so PwME/CFS do not have complete all of the questionnaires, all of the time. For example, we may be able to pull out a subset of questions which are most relevant for people with severe ME. Alternatively, there may be sub-scales for specific problems such as pain, sleep problems or autonomic dysfunction.
This seems to confirm that it's intended to quantify and measure and to use those measures to 'support goal setting, and treatment planning and to monitor changes'.
If goal setting was for the clinician to have the goals of regular monitoring at the frequency the pwME wants/needs, and goals of providing accessible and suitable medical and personal care, aids, resources, support and help with employers, benefits agencies, schools, etc, fine, but if it's about the pwME being expected to make goals that involve forward planning of sustained, timetabled, or increasing activity, then it's not.
 
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Am I suitable to take part?
We are asking adults who have been diagnosed with ME/CFS or long covid in the UK to take part.
Since there is no questionnaire we've seen so far that distinguishes whether people with LC experience PEM, as some do and some don't, this seems to mean they are muddling together pwME and pwLC who may have completely different conditions. Does this matter? I don't know, but it does add to the importance of including a way of identifying and tracking PEM as part of pacing advice, not burying it in a generalised 'symptoms after exertion' as Sarah Tyson seems to intend to do.

What will I be asked to do if I took part?
You will be asked to complete the PROM questionnaires online. To minimise the energy demands, we send you one PROM at a time over several months. After you have completed the PROM, we will send you a reminder a couple of weeks later to ask you to repeat it. This is so we can test how the answers change over time. This helps us understand how symptom fluctuate and how well the PROM picks up any changes. As well as the PROM, there will also be some questions about you. For example, your gender, age, how long you have had ME, and whether you have recieved care from a ME services etc.
PASS and the activity quesionnaire are so flawed in their current form that they will be more likely just to pick up a mix of random fluctuations in the pwME's condition, random guesses about what the questions mean and which of a set of ambiguous answers to pick and not being able to summarise fluctuations over a month into a single selected option for each question.
 
There aren’t really any risks of taking part in the study. Of course, you should pace yourself carefully while completing the survey. Take as many rests/ pauses as you need.
I beg to differ. there are real risks that partipants will feel inadequate because they can't figure out which option applies, that they will be dismayed at the lack of understanding of PEM, that they will be horrified by the inappropriate and ambiguous options offered and so on.

As it turned out, there was also the completely unexpected risk that the researchers would turn on and insult forum members.

There is also the major risk that these questionnaires will be misused to prop up and perpetuate a failed model of therapist led rehabilitiation clinics practicing pacing up, etc etc.
 
What happens if I do not want to take part or if I change my mind?
It is up to you to decide whether or not to take part. You can stop at any time without giving a reason and without detriment to yourself. However, it will not be possible to remove responses as we will not be able to identify your specific data. This does not affect your data protection rights.

Data Protection and Confidentiality
The only information we will collect that could identify you is your email address. All the data we collect (ie your responses to the survey questions) is confidential and only the research team will have access to any individual responses.
The information you provide (but not your email address) may be shared with researchers running other studies that share the same values. This is to support additional research into ME/CFS and is in accordance with The University of Manchester’s Research Privacy Notice.

Please also note that individuals from The University of Manchester or regulatory authorities may need to look at the data collected for this study to make sure the project is being carried out as planned.

All individuals involved in auditing and monitoring the study will have a strict duty of confidentiality to you as a research participant.

Will the outcomes of the research be published?
We will make the PROMs freely available via the ME Association website. The results will be publicised via the ME Association and social media and by other ME charities. We will publish the findings in academic journals and scientific conferences.

Who has reviewed the research project?
The University of Manchester Proportionate Research Ethics Committee

Who is funding the research project?
The ME Association

What if I have a complaint? If you have a complaint, please contact Sarah in the first instance on Sarah.Tyson@manchester.ac.uk.

If you wish to make a formal complaint to someone independent of the research team or if you are not satisfied with the response you have gained from the researchers in the first instance then please contact

The Research Ethics Manager, Research Office, Christie Building, The University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PL,

by emailing: research.complaints@manchester.ac.uk

or by telephoning 0161 306 8089.

If you wish to contact us about your data protection rights, please email

dataprotection@manchester.ac.uk
or write to The Information Governance Office, Christie Building, The University of Manchester, Oxford Road, M13 9PL
at the University and we will guide you through the process of exercising your rights. You also have a right to complain to the Information Commissioner’s Office about complaints relating to your personal identifiable information Tel 0303 123 1113
 
After you have completed the PROM, we will send you a reminder a couple of weeks later to ask you to repeat it. This is so we can test how the answers change over time. This helps us understand how symptom fluctuate and how well the PROM picks up any changes.

That makes no sense. You can't tell how well a questionnaire is picking up changes unless you have another way of measuring the changes. It's like sticking a thermometer into water at different times and saying 'this will tell us the temperature of the water, and also whether our thermometer is working properly.'
 
My concern about Sarah Tyson's understanding of PEM put me right off completing any more questionnaires for the PROMS project, after I'd exhausted myself filling in the 1st, confusing, questionnaire. Yes, I was definitely "dismayed at the lack of understanding of PEM" after reading Sarah Tyson claiming that from her experience PEM can last a few minutes, and that she hadn't encountered the term 'fatiguability' and didn't know what it meant or how it differers from PEM
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Sarah Tyson:
"People with 'mild' ME, have short lived PEM. When I'm having a good spell, my PEM lasts minutes or a couple of hours. Fatigability isn't a term I have come across before in this context. How do you define it? How does it differ from PEM? ?"

https://www.s4me.info/threads/uk-me...alist-services-2023.33221/page-10#post-515936

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