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UK: Document: MEDICALLY UNEXPLAINED SYMPTOMS (MUS) IN CHILDREN AND YOUNG PEOPLE, 2018

Discussion in 'Other psychosomatic news and research' started by Andy, Oct 23, 2019.

  1. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    Hampshire, UK
    Document attached to this post.

    Source: https://paedmhassoc.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/mus-guide-with-leaflet-nov-2018.pdf, which is a 'behind the scenes" link for this webpage, https://pmha-uk.org/

    Internet archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/2019102...m/2018/11/mus-guide-with-leaflet-nov-2018.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

    rvallee, Skycloud, Gecko and 8 others like this.
  2. MEMarge

    MEMarge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Sickening.
     
  3. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    How are medics allowed to get away with the entire MUS nonsense with no meaningful research basis whatsoever?

    Medicine by belief and prejudice.
     
  4. Oni

    Oni Established Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    London, UK
    I don't even know where to begin...

    Points 2 and 3 below really take the cake: encouraging practitioners to make a clinical decision based on their personal emotions and feelings towards a patient.


     
  5. JemPD

    JemPD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Only skimmed some of this document cant manage the rest, but I thought this bit was interesting (especially the bit I've bolded), & one of the big reasons why its such a nightmare for ME/CFS to be subsumed under the MUS banner. It's the absolute worst thing for CYPwME but when drs are being advised to hang on to it even when it's hard...

    Thinking of Karina & Gigi & countless others, it made me shudder reading it.
     
  6. Lidia

    Lidia Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    155
    Disgusting.

    A parent who is over-interested in their child’s loss of function? Get out of medicine you psychopath.
     
  7. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    rvallee and MEMarge like this.
  8. alktipping

    alktipping Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    "when should you use this guide"? answer = if you have run out of toilet paper or need kindling for a fire . when will doctors ever stand up and call them out on this codswallop or do the lazy and stupid members of this profession just want this easy let of . as in I do not have to do any work or tests and there is no comeback .
     
  9. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,910
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    It's awful.

    And there's actually no benefit to the health system from all this victim-blaming, family-blaming, hand-wavy 'let's find the trauma in your life' stuff.

    Here we've just been through a process of developing a Health Pathway document - it's an online resource that doctors access to help them diagnose and treat, with links to various resources that are useful, local contact details for referrals and so on. Perhaps controversially, the Health Pathway document relevant to us is titled 'Chronic Fatigue and CFS'.

    It helps doctors through a diagnostic process for someone presenting with chronic fatigue. Some of the questions do cover psychological issues and there is a link off to the depression page, along with others to multiple sclerosis and so on, but it also covers how to assess PEM and orthostatic intolerance and the IOM diagnostic criteria. We've tried to ensure that a reasonable diagnostic effort is made - because that process of ruling stuff out does help a patient sit more happily with a diagnosis of ME/CFS or even just a 'sorry, I really don't know' conclusion.

    If at the end of it, someone is assessed as having ME/CFS, then they are given supportive care and a referral to our patient support group for the kind of care that can't be provided in time slots of 15 minutes.

    If someone doesn't have PEM or a diagnosable illness, the pathway doesn't suggest slapping them with a MUS label and probing for buried trauma. They still get the supportive care and, and this is where it took us a little while to get our heads around it, they may still be referred to our ME/CFS patient group.

    Because actually the support we provide is quite useful to anyone coping with chronic fatiguing illnesses. Of course we have to be careful to provide nuanced advice about how to manage activity - but it should always boil down to the individual patient getting to know how their body reacts and doing what works best for them. The fact that people might come to us incorrectly diagnosed with ME/CFS (ie without PEM) means that it was never appropriate for us to be giving blanket directives to limit activity anyway.

    The Health Pathway suggests annual followup for adults, after the diagnostic process has been sorted, and ongoing vigilance on the part of the doctor for alternative diagnoses and new illnesses.

    Anyway, the outcome in terms of cost to the health system isn't so very different to that achieved by the MUS approach. In fact, our approach is probably cheaper because patients who have gone through a reasonable diagnostic process and are hearing about the current state of knowledge from well-informed patient groups will be less likely to doctor shop, and no money is wasted on ineffectual BPS interventions or making fabricated illness accusations. Furthermore, patients remain willing to engage with the health system, and so if the 'chronic fatigue' does turn out to be something treatable, or the person develops some unrelated condition, it is caught early.

    Doctors following that process can feel ok, because they've done the best they can, not added insult to injury and have maintained a good relationship with their patient. It's true that the patient support groups are left doing a lot of the heavy lifting - but we see patient support groups looking after illnesses like multiple sclerosis doing much the same things. In health systems with very limited funds, that's just how it is.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  10. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    In some ways a misdiagnosis of say ME/CFS as MUS may be less immediately damaging for us than for other conditions. Misdiagnosis of ME/CFS patients may worsen symptoms, for some significantly increasing their level of disability, may result in long term emotional/psychological issues and result in avoidance of medical services, but for most it will not be fatal.

    However for other medical conditions it may be more likely to result in preventable deaths. For example classic descriptions of heart attacks are based on presentations of male patients, however woman experiencing heart attacks do not always follow this gender biased text book pattern, but display what the books mislabel as atypical symptoms. Consequently woman having heart attacks are less likely to be accurately diagnosed than men. This means some woman are at risk of being fed into an MUS system failing to recognise or appropriately treat potentially fatal heart conditions.

    If we in the ME community are aware of the problems of this, why are other patient groups also not reacting in horror. How many preventable deaths will be required for the underlying hypotheses of MUS as an unevidenced pseudo psychiatric diagnosis is objectively evaluated?
     
  11. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    Sadly, it will probably take a clear pattern of this preventable increase in morbidity and mortality before enough patients and clinicians from outside the ME world will pay attention and demand action. :(
     
  12. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    MUS theories are hate and prejudice disguising themselves as scientific theory.
     
  13. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I couldn't bear to read much of this document, as the bits I read seemed focused on the doctor's feelings and validating the idea that it's normal for doctors to feel the 'heartsink' feelings when faced with a patient they can't diagnose. There seemed to be a lot of 'othering' of patients as inferior beings to doctors.

    Why not tell doctors firmly that such attitudes are unworthy of doctors, and to take a positive approach of working with the patient, managing uncertainty professionally, and providing the sort of decent support they would give patients for whom there is a clear diagnosis.

    Hutan, that system you have developed sounds great, provided the local support group includes people who actually have the training, skills and resources to provide the sort of support needed. When I tried my local support group some years ago they were worse than useless. They actually employed someone to help run the groups who was awful, from my point of view, and their current website is scientifically ignorant.

    Edit to add: There is also the danger of local support groups being prey to quacks like LP, or egos like the Colin Barton Sussex group (have I got the name right). If doctors are going to rely on local support groups there should probably be a way of vetting them. In an illness like ME where there is no clear clinical pathway and no treatments, we are particularly vulnerable to quacks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  14. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Consequences
    Real conditions not picked up
    FII accusations increasing
    Who collates these?
     
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  15. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It is quite clear where Pilowsky's 1969 concept of Abnormal Illness Behaviour went once it had made its appearance in the ME literature in the Wessely 1988 paper. This is it.
     
  16. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, a very good point. (My comments about patient organisations weren't actually necessary; it's just that we're just finishing the pathway so I'm thinking about it. Seems to me, national patient organisations should have a role in helping to ensure regional organisations are not quacky.)

    But, even without referring to patient support groups, the thing is that adding in the 'MUS' concept adds nothing good to a process of diagnosis and support. Of course it doesn't make patients feel better, but it also doesn't save money, and it shouldn't make doctors feel better.
     
  17. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Whatever the people who produced this garbage are doing working in medicine is a real puzzle. Some people simply aren't cut out for the job. It happens, no need to make others suffer for it.

    But it's the cluelessness that gets me. Mixed with misplaced confidence, it makes for a potent toxic brew. It must be made clear that there will be consequences once this implodes on itself. This won't be swept under the rug. Not this time.
     
  18. alktipping

    alktipping Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    unfortunately graveyards are full of people who are victims of medical ignorance and overconfidence . I don't have another 30 years to wait for them to wake up to this crass politically motivated stupidity when will these people ever be brought to task never mind face the consequences for their abysmal failures .
     
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  19. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Is that not what a doctor does, by definition? My wrist joint hurts so I must have been frightened by my father grabbing me when I was 2 years old, is that what we have come to?

    It's the only thing that has made me feel better about fitting the definition for functional neurological disorder!
     
  20. JemPD

    JemPD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    yes i'm afraid that is exactly where we've come to.
     
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