UK: Disability benefits (UC, ESA and PIP) - news and updates 2023 (including government plans to scrap the work capability assessment)

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Ash said:
If mild moderate level ME and forced to work which would be many times more demanding than the CBT via GET process, the % of victims of prolonged PEM moving into permanent loss of function moving into severe or very severe ME states would be an experiment that would almost certainly lead to a coroners enquiry or few.
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Yep. That's what happened to me, I was just working part time, term time on1y (on working tax credits).
 
Ash said:
If mild moderate level ME and forced to work which would be many times more demanding than the CBT via GET process, the % of victims of prolonged PEM moving into permanent loss of function moving into severe or very severe ME states would be an experiment that would almost certainly lead to a coroners enquiry or few.
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Yes. But they are 1ike1y to put these peop1e into the WRA group, so not expected to actua11y 1ook for work, but expected to engage with a work coach, interviews (may be by te1ephone if housebound) and undertake work re1ated activity (from home). But un1ess on PIP, they'd 1ose the additiona1 hea1th e1ement of UC.
 
Simbindi said:
I think you'd have to write to your 1oca1 job centre. I quoted the DWP guidance severa1 pages back (I cou1dn't paste a direct 1ink). If going to appea1 then the DWP has to provide it to the appea1 court.
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yay, by sheer chance i found it the first page i scanned i thought i'd never manage to read through but it was on the first one i scanned :)

its post#352 should anyone else want it

man its really hard/detailed & cognitive difficulties unfriendly, but my carer might be able to find the useful bits in it
 
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How we intend to implement these changes
81. Changes to the WCA activities and descriptors will be implemented nationally, no earlier than 2025.

82. We want claimants who have already been assessed as having LCWRA to be able to engage with support to move towards work without the fear of reassessment. We have committed to ensuring no one currently assessed as having LCWRA will face a WCA reassessment, save in some exceptional circumstances. This will in effect abolish the WCA for this group, bringing forward a key element of our Health and Disability White Paper proposals and give people the confidence to try work.

83. Following the implementation of these changes, reassessments for people who have LCWRA will only take place under very limited circumstances which are:

  • When a claimant reports a change of circumstances in their health condition;
  • If a claimant has been awarded LCWRA for pregnancy risk, or cancer treatment where the prognosis for recovery is expected to be short-term;
  • If a claimant has been declared as having LCWRA under the new risk provisions; and
  • In the case of suspected fraud.
84. We will introduce the Chance to Work Guarantee, a new offer for existing LCWRA claimants to help support them into work. This guarantee will:

  • Make a commitment not to re-assess this group. This will remove the financial risk that many claimants have told us is a barrier to them trying work.
  • Remove one of the main barriers to trying work. This will give people the confidence to take advantage of the generous financial incentives in Universal Credit, the Work Allowance, taper and six month reclaiming rules, and the permitted work rules in ESA.
  • Provide a significant new package of employment and health support. This includes our WorkWell Partnerships Programme that will deliver integrated work and health support to disabled people and people with health conditions, and Universal Support which is a new supported employment programme for disabled people and people with long-term health conditions in England and Wales.
85. From 2025, we will begin to use the terms ‘Work Preparation’ instead of ‘LCW’, and ‘Health Group’ will replace ‘LCWRA’. Telling someone they have Limited Capability for Work (LCW) or are in the Limited Capability for Work-Related Activity (LCWRA) group focuses on what a person cannot do and does not support claimants to engage with work or work-related activity.

86. The White Paper set out our long-term proposals to remove the WCA and introduce a new UC health element, using the PIP assessment as a single health and disability functional assessment. Those reforms will require primary legislation, which is why we have set out these proposals today to bring forward changes that can be delivered more quickly. We know the WCA acts as a financial disincentive for disabled people and people with health conditions who want to try work. People fear if they try work and it doesn’t work out, they risk losing their additional financial support upon reassessment. The commitment that no one with an existing LCWRA decision today will be reassessed, except in a few limited circumstances, means that they can try work without fear of losing their LCWRA financial support.
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This seems to imp1y that they are stopping WCA reassessments for c1aimants who are current1y in a LCWRA group (I presume that's both UC and ESA).

So changes wi11 first1y affect those on UC, then those in the support group of ESA when they are transferred to UC (at the moment that's supposed to be 2028/9). Then u1timate1y they wi11 turn to new sty1e ESA as there won't be any WCA to decide who gets it indefinite1y. So I suspect they wi11 have to bring in some changes to how they assess this non income based ESA, presumab1y new c1aimants first then the existing ones (this is hypothetica1, I'm just thinking to the 1ogica1 conc1usion).
 
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The proposed savings of these WCA changes are covered by the OBR report from page 60 onwards.

https://obr.uk/docs/dlm_uploads/E03004355_November-Economic-and-Fiscal-Outlook_Web-Accessible.pdf

However, the government (and the OBR) must have overestimated them as the way the WCA is assessed is that the medica1 assessment can be stopped once the LCWRA 15 point score is reached in any one part. Because the mobi1ity is at the beginning of the assessment many c1aimants who meet it, but wou1d a1so meet it in another question, are scored just on this criteria. So if they've just taken the number of c1aimants put in the LCWRA based on mobi1ity to predict the number of c1aimants who wi11 no 1onger meet LCWRA if 15 points on mobi1ising no 1onger p1aces you in this group, then they wi11 have meaning1ess figures for any predicted savings.

That doesn't app1y to the substantia1 risk criteria as this can on1y be advised after the fu11 medica1 assessment has been comp1eted in every domain.
 
I cant understand what them stopping reassessments for people already in LCWRA/SG means. It appears to be written as if it's being done to enable people to engage with the new incentives to try working/get support to do so without the threat of being reassessed/losing benefits. But what if you dont/arent engage with the 'new offer'. Does that mean that people like me, who is on CBonly ESA (legacy not new style so am not currently scheduled to be transferred to UC)... does it mean that people like me, from 2025, will just be getting the benefit indefinitely. That seems bonkers. The equivalent of giving everyone a 5-10yr award?

That cant be right surely. I imagine it will be more like no more reassessments 'as long as you're engaging with this new offer to try looking for work/working. Otherwise by doing no reassessments for anyone currently in LCWRA/SG groups they will be doing exactly what they're claiming they putting a stop to! - ie people languishing on benefits with no pressure to find work. (not that that has ever actually been happening, just its what they claim theyre supposed to be taking a hard line against).

Simbindi said:
So changes wi11 first1y affect those on UC, then those in the support group of ESA when they are transferred to UC (at the moment that's supposed to be 2028/9). Then u1timate1y they wi11 turn to new sty1e ESA as there won't be any WCA to decide who gets it indefinite1y. So I suspect they wi11 have to bring in some changes to how they assess this non income based ESA, presumab1y new c1aimants first then the existing ones (this is hypothetica1, I'm just thinking to the 1ogica1 conc1usion).
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So are you saying they will develop a way to reassess afore mentioned groups then? OR that the 'no more reassessments' wont affect everyone at the beginning.

For goodness sake its so complicated with legacy ESA IR & CB, the New Style ESA CB & then UC LCW & LCWRA, i mean truly its absurd.

edited for clarity
 
JemPD said:
So are you saying they will develop a way to reassess afore mentioned groups then? OR that the 'no more reassessments' wont affect everyone at the beginning.
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It's hypothetica1. I wou1d think that eventua11y they wi11 come up with a way to move peop1e off every 1egacy benefit. But that's just my prediction.

I don't even know if the current party even expect to be in office to do any of this stuff, certain1y many individua1 Conservative MPs don't. But this is a party who thinks they can make an unsafe country safe by dec1aring it so in 1aw, so I can't fathom their thinking...
 
JemPD said:
FFS its so complicated with legacy ESA IR & CB, the New Style ESA CB & then UC LCW & LCWRA, i mean truly its absurd.
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I think this just shows how s1ow1y changes can actua11y happen in practice.

Apparant1y there's a report obtained by freedom of information act that the migration to UC is unsafe for vu1nerab1e c1aimants.

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.c...rsal-credit-support-for-vulnerable-claimants/

So I wonder if this was part of the reason for de1aying the migration of 1egacy ESA support group on to UC.
 
Simbindi said:
It's hypothetica1. I wou1d think that eventua11y they wi11 come up with a way to move peop1e off every 1egacy benefit. But that's just my prediction.
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yes its interesting because they started moving people off Incapacity Benefit in approx 2010/11? I was moved over to ESA in 2013, but there are still people on IB even now - still not moved over more than a decade later, so.... ??? still plenty of people on DLA too, still not moved to PIP.
 
Of course ESA to UC migration is unsafe for vulnerable claimants.

It took 3 months to sort out and it is not possible to do unless you can use both telephone and Internet, on demand.......and they do.

They also tried to diddle me (polite way of putting it) out of 5 weeks of sg payments. UC sg payments Instantly paid, once I queried it, about 4 months after they had deemed the esa sg payments overpayments, and clawed them back, leaving me at times with negative money after paying even the rent. but until then......nothing.
 
In view of all this, i wonder how keen they will be to reassess me (supposedly due in feb but been deferred the last 3 times).

Does 'currently' mean literally now, in november 2023... ie does it mean that my scheduled reassessment in 2024 wont happen... or does 'currently' mean at the time the changes are brought in
?
 
Random thought: The government NEVER move this fast; If they have produced a response to the Work Capability Assessment: Activities and Descriptors Consultation in less than a month, they they were already writing it before the consultation closed, weren't they? And that means they knew exactly what they were going to do, no matter what anyone said, didn't they?!

Funny how it was published on the day of the Autumn Statement, when everyone is looking elsewhere...
 
JellyBabyKid said:
Random thought: The government NEVER move this fast; If they have produced a response to the Work Capability Assessment: Activities and Descriptors Consultation in less than a month, they they were already writing it before the consultation closed, weren't they? And that means they knew exactly what they were going to do, no matter what anyone said, didn't they?!
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absolutely
 
JemPD said:
In view of all this, i wonder how keen they will be to reassess me (supposedly due in feb but been deferred the last 3 times).

Does 'currently' mean literally now, in november 2023... ie does it mean that my scheduled reassessment in 2024 wont happen... or does 'currently' mean at the time the changes are brought in
?
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I was due an ESA reassessment in 2021 it magically got extended, without telling me, but they couldn't tell me how long for. When my MPs office asked, and I was finally given (eventually) a review date at the end of May. When it never arrived, and the the DWP were again contacted, they said "it will be with you at the end of the month". That was at the end of May...

Now I know why it never materialised.
 
JellyBabyKid said:
Random thought: The government NEVER move this fast; If they have produced a response to the Work Capability Assessment: Activities and Descriptors Consultation in less than a month, they they were already writing it before the consultation closed, weren't they? And that means they knew exactly what they were going to do, no matter what anyone said, didn't they?!

Funny how it was published on the day of the Autumn Statement, when everyone is looking elsewhere...
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Yes. The OBR report a1ready had the detai1s of which descriptors wou1d be changed and the predictions on how this wi11 affect we1fare savings over the future years. So the government must have decided a whi1e ago what it wou1d do.

Of course the OBR predictions ignore the way the WCA is done in practice in coming up with the number of c1aimants who wi11 no 1onger be entit1ed to the LCWRA payment in the future, so its savings predictions wi11 be too high. The assumptions are c1ear in the tab1e on page 62 of the report 1inked to in my previous post.

I don't think Me1 Stride has any idea of how the WCA is conducted, he doesn't appear to have read the DWP guidebook on it. Neither I think has the OBR in coming up with its forecasted savings.
 
JellyBabyKid said:
I was due an ESA reassessment in 2021 it magically got extended, without telling me, but they couldn't tell me how long for. When my MPs office asked, and I was finally given (eventually) a review date at the end of May. When it never arrived, and the the DWP were again contacted, they said "it will be with you at the end of the month". That was at the end of May...

Now I know why it never materialised.
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I've not had one for over 10 years, since I was moved from the WRAG to the support group (without a face to face) within weeks of my first PIP award (enhanced for both mobi1ity and care). I did 1ose out as they sat on my comp1eted renewa1 ESA 50 form for 8 months, so I missed 8 months worth of the severe disabi1ity premium.
 
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