Tymes Trust - No reported harassment of staff at Bristol University

"But given the nature and scale of the threat, it is unsurprising that a set of the most worrying names exists- and it is at the disposal of the authorities."

Which authorities?

And who maintains the list and where and by what means is that data stored and who is making it available to "the authorities"?
 
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Dx Revision Watch said:
OK. Re post #54

In a Hanlon thread, on another forum, I had posted links for submitting a Subject Access Request to the relevant police department who deal with Domestic Extremism... I have the time, I will revisit that post and copy the links here.
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I was on about the apparent reactions and perceptions of the authorities, not your post describing it.
 
Given that I have a history of submitting only polite, formally worded FOIs, maintain websites on which I publish evidenced based reports and avoid making claims I cannot support with evidence, it would be interesting to establish whether I am on the alleged list of 50 to 80 "extremists".

And me a former Home Watch street organiser, too...

And how are "militant, radical and active" defined and by what means and by whom are those allegedly identified via a list differentiated into one of these categories?
 
OK, I have to go now and tackle the pile of ironing from hell.

I will contact the person with whom I was working on the drafting of a potential FOI re unsupported claims made in the Hanlon 2013 article and ask whether they would be OK with me considering taking this forward without them.

I will also update if I decide to submit a request for confirmation as to whether my name is on the alleged list of 50 to 80 "real extremists" who allegedly "...wield influence out of all proportion to their numbers..."

What utter tripe.
 
Esther Crawley claims harassment, university has no record
By Adam Lowe

A controversial researcher into ‘quack’ treatments for ME/CFS claims she is being harassed by patients, but university records don’t back outlandish claims.

Controversial Bristol University researcher Esther Crawley, who claims to have treated children with ME/CFS by using a treatment based on two pseudosciences, has made waves among her colleagues in academia after implying she had received numerous threatening communications over many years. However, a Freedom of Information request to her own institution by The Tymes Trust, revealed that no such incidents had been reported to them. Furthermore, a previous tribunal with the Information Commissioner, which had examined the claims by a small segment of researchers (who use primarily psycho-social approaches to treating this biological illness) that they were being harassed and abused by ‘vexatious’ disabled people, found such claims to be ‘grossly exaggerated’ and at risk of undermining researchers’ claims of objectivity.
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http://vadamagazine.com/news/esther-crawley-claims-harassment-university-no-record
 
It's possible it is all made up, but I think that unlikely. I very much imagine that what's happened is someone has heckled Crawley, or sent her a strongly worded email, and that this has wrongly been labeled as harassment and used as it has. Given her colleagues made up or exaggerated claims of harassment and only when it got to a court room were they placed in a position where they had to admit there was no harassment, it's reasonable to suspect the same thing may be happening here. It's also possible that procedures were not followed (or even don't exist at the university), or that the claimed harassment didn't meet the threshold of seriousness to report formally.

But either way I am all for details of the alleged harassment that she has voiced to be properly investigated by the university and anyone else. She must report these claims. If there is harassment then the individuals should be dealt with appropriately. If there isn't any harassment then she should apologise. If these are only one or two relatively minor and isolated cases then she should apologies anyway because the way she brings it up she makes it sound like the ME community has a huge problem with harassment and I don't believe this to be true and there is a woeful lack of evidence that is the case. It creates an additional stigma on patients who already suffer unjustified prejudice.
 
"However, a Freedom of Information request to her own institution by The Tymes Trust, revealed that no such incidents had been reported to them."

"We have received no official reports of harassment of
University staff by a third party between September
2010 and June 2015."


I cannot get too excited about this.

Jane has still not given me an answer as to why she asked for September 2010 and not March 2010, which was when the Smile Trial pilot issued the first press release.

Additionally, if any alleged complaints had been reported directly to the police, the university may not hold that information/documents on file to provide under FOI.
 
Dx Revision Watch said:
I will give consideration to submitting a request as to whether or not I am on the list.

Why would the police disclose a list of names to a journalist and would that breach data protection?
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I'm not asking you personally to do a request if you feel uncomfortable doing so, just someone prominent who everyone agrees should not be on a 'list'.

Why would the police disclose a list of names to a journalist?

Why would they not? (even if it broke rules or law)

Mutual backscratching, we leak the stories and info, you get the scoops.
 
Luther Blissett said:
I'm not asking you personally to do a request if you feel uncomfortable doing so, just someone prominent who everyone agrees should not be on a 'list'.

Why would the police disclose a list of names to a journalist?

Why would they not? (even if it broke rules or law)

Mutual backscratching, we leak the stories and info, you get the scoops.
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"Some argue that circulating lists of activists - who in many cases might be mentally ill - has implications for civil liberties.

But given the nature and scale of the threat, it is unsurprising that a set of the most worrying names exists- and it is at the disposal of the authorities.

After much persuasion, I am shown a list of activists; names that crop up time and again on the ME forums.

They are divided into three categories: militant, radical and active..."​


Again, Hanlon does not clarify who allegedly showed him a list or which "authorities" allegedly have access to a list. It implies either a police list or someone else's list.

And he wrote:

There is, I am told, a specialised unit at the Metropolitan Police dedicated to monitoring the threat, but no one at Scotland Yard will speak publicly about this."

​
Told by whom?

If he had been shown a list held by the Met, then presumably he would have known whether there was a dedicated unit. But he is vague "There is, I am told..."

It's all so vague as to be meaningless. Disgraceful that it got past the editorial staff and the ST's legal department.

I had worked for the Sunday Times newspaper's graphics studio when Harold Evans was editor and also for their special publications department for several months in 1974, and that article sickened me.

​
 
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In my experience, the 'lists' are either kept by the police, or industry, with overlap and co-ordination between. The police lists are used to monitor, infiltrate and spy on groups or individuals. An ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) spokesman said this in 2009:

There are lots of reasons why people might be on the database.
Not everyone on there is a criminal and not everyone on there is a domestic extremist but we have got to build up a picture of what is happening.
Those people may be able to help us in the future.
It's an intelligence database, not an evidence database.
Protesting is not a criminal offence but there is occasionally a line that is crossed when people commit offences.
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The industry lists are used for blacklisting workers, but the police records may turn up on a criminal background check when applying for a job.

Contrary to how it sounds, a Domestic Extremist is not usually considered to be a terrorist threat, as that is an area for MI5.

A good overview of the whole term can be found at: http://powerbase.info/index.php/Domestic_Extremism

As you can see from that link, there is a shifting definition, and little oversight of the term, and the Supreme Court has ruled it legal to gather information and store it, even in the case of people who have committed no crimes.

I'm sure the good people at netpol could provide some good advice around this whole area. https://netpol.org/

On a lighter note, as you've expressed an intention to do some ironing, I think you may enjoy this demonstration by the Aldermaston Women's Peace Camp in respect of their being labeled 'Domestic Extremists'.

(contains wobbly hand cam footage for those who may find it difficult)

 
Dx Revision Watch said:
And how are "militant, radical and active" defined and by what means and by whom are those allegedly identified via a list differentiated into one of these categories?
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And how can you challenge it if it is wrong?

Wessely & co knew exactly what they were doing in running this scam from early on in the game. It has paid off very nicely in keeping their arses covered for 30 years.

Joel said:
If there isn't any harassment then she should apologise.
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And be sacked.
 
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Luther Blissett said:
A good overview of the whole term can be found at: http://powerbase.info/index.php/Domestic_Extremism
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Thanks for this link, Luther, I'll look at this today.

As you can see from that link, there is a shifting definition, and little oversight of the term, and the Supreme Court has ruled it legal to gather information and store it, even in the case of people who have committed no crimes.

I'm sure the good people at netpol could provide some good advice around this whole area. https://netpol.org/
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Yes, I found the Netpol site, yesterday. It sets out how to go about submitting an application for information, what documents you need to supply etc. Seems it can take a while for an application to be fulfilled. BTW, some of the links in the Guardian article I posted yesterday no longer point.

On a lighter note, as you've expressed an intention to do some ironing, I think you may enjoy this demonstration by the Aldermaston Women's Peace Camp in respect of their being labeled 'Domestic Extremists'.

(contains wobbly hand cam footage for those who may find it difficult)

Click to expand...


Brilliant!
 
Adrian said:
I thought the ICO ruled them illegal and even prosecuted someone for having employment blacklists
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Yes, despite a massive operation containing thousands of people being blacklisted, one person was convicted, and only then because he didn't cover his tracks.

The law says you can't keep a 'list', as if it only happens if written down, and saved for an investigation to find.

It's not illegal to have a quiet word, use a code word in a reference, send a note or mention it over drinks. Just don't keep it on a 'list'.
 
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