Tues 20 Feb: Livestream of post-Unrest panel discussion, incl. Ron Davis, Lily Chu, Montoya, Tuller

Dr. Montoya proposed an interesting idea along the lines that were are seeing more immune related diseases in recent years because we are the descendants of previous generations who survived to adulthood, in part, because they happened to have strong immune systems. The idea being that some immune diseases are a consequence of a strong, or over-reactive, immune system.

On the other hand, you might argue that we are also the descendants of a few generations of ancestors who might have died in childhood were it not for vaccination, antibiotics, and other benefits of modern medicine. It seems like that would favor an increase in the number of descendants with weaker immune systems than would otherwise occur.

I'd guess you'd probably wind up with subgroups of both.
 
Diwi9 said:
I posted a link above...also...it's the "right" on both sides. I transcribed it incorrectly the first time but have edited.
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Cool.
I have the images from both my MRIs and the brain spect on CD, but i guess i now need someone who can read them to check these areas. It was a bit tricky to get them but i always wondered if future discoveries would give the opportunity to further scrutinize the data.

Forbin said:
Dr. Montoya proposed an interesting idea along the lines that were are seeing more immune related diseases in recent years because we are the descendants of previous generations who survived to adulthood, in part, because they happened to have strong immune systems. The idea being that some immune diseases are a consequence of a strong, or over-reactive, immune system.

On the other hand, you might argue that we are also the descendants of a few generations of ancestors who might have died in childhood were it not for vaccination, antibiotics, and other benefits of modern medicine. It seems like that would favor an increase in the number of descendants with weaker immune systems than would otherwise occur.

I'd guess you'd probably wind up with subgroups of both.
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I've heard this type of theory before, in regards to hypothyroidism and size of the birth canal, apparently with C sections smaller birth canal size will continue being propagated since both mother and child now survive leading to this recessive trait and the need for C sections for the rest of humanity's existence. Also the fact people are treated with thyroid hormone means they live better and have more children perpetuating hypothyroidism.
I'm not sure i buy it, but i don't dismiss it out of hand. Convenient/intuitive explanations have a way of persisting even when disproven which is part of my skepticism.
 
I've heard the video from last night is uploaded and can be viewed.
Does anyone have a link?
 
He also made such a good point when saying about the early days of AiDS that even if certain people did not take it seriously, they could not deny it existed because patients were dying, whereas often ME is both not taken seriously and denied it even exists.
 
Chris said:
He also made such a good point when saying about the early days of AiDS that even if certain people did not take it seriously, they could not deny it existed because patients were dying, whereas often ME is both not taken seriously and denied it even exists.
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Indeed, i thought that question was well answered by everyone
 
Ah, yes. Homeopathy (homeo pathetic) is now nano-pharmacology. Oh how pseudo, just fling a few greek words, and voila, instant scientific approval, yeah right.
Good semimar. Very impressed with Ron Davis and open journal to come.
 
Great watch, i liked this quote from Ron

"Its a very heterogeneous disease, and we are seeing a lot of patterns in our data. We are coming up with a lot ideas and theories. I`m still pretty optimistic that we can use this to track down the original problem. I suspect there is a single cause, and that there's a lot of heterogeneity in how it`s expressed. And we should not be focusing on the heterogeneity, but on what actually initiated it. Considering the fact that it happens overnight in some cases, I don't think it can be super complicated. I think when we figure it out we will say oh god, i could not believe it was that simple. But you have to look in the right place, and to do that we need lots of good scientists looking in lots of different places."
 
Marky said:
Great watch, i liked this quote from Ron

"Its a very heterogeneous disease, and we are seeing a lot of patterns in our data. We are coming up with a lot ideas and theories. I`m still pretty optimistic that we can use this to track down the original problem. I suspect there is a single cause, and that there's a lot of heterogeneity in how it`s expressed. And we should not be focusing on the heterogeneity, but on what actually initiated it. Considering the fact that it happens overnight in some cases, I don't think it can be super complicated. I think when we figure it out we will say oh god, i could not believe it was that simple. But you have to look in the right place, and to do that we need lots of good scientists looking in lots of different places."
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Indeed, though the cause is not necessary important, the effect is what matters, if it were caused by the cold virus reacting to a genetic mutation we have (for example) then we can't cure the common cold but we may be able to reset the immune system once we figure out what the persistent mechanism is.
Narcolepsy is believed to be caused by an autoimmune reaction that kills a small section of Orexin producing brain cells. The cause has never been identified but if it is it may not be preventable but it may be treatable. That said it could go either way, if it is caused by a specific virus/bacteria perhaps a vaccine can be developed, though that will do nothing for people who are already affected but may prevent future cases.
That said we won't know which matters or doesn't matter til we have a complete disease etiology but for now i would settle for a disease mechanism, even if the trigger is not identified right away.

Also the fact that some respond to Rituximab and others don't suggests its not heterogeneous or that there may be subsets or variants.
 
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