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Trial By Error: The School Absence Study, Revisited (Crawley/SMILE)

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS news' started by Kalliope, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    2,734
    Did I understand it correctly?

    School data was collected and evaluated.

    Why was it allowed to collect school data in the first place? You would need the consent from the school attendee or a parent. So you would need to ask a certain amount of people from a school if they agree that their school data is collected. Did this happen?
    [Although Germany and UK are different, is data safety so different, too? In Germany it would be illegal to collect (and process!) data without informed consent and the right to withdraw this consent.]

    Edit: And why should a parent with a child who has missing times consent to such a thing?
     
    MEMarge, Solstice, Keela Too and 7 others like this.
  2. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    1,678
    Because the parent was being asked by the same people who have the ability to take them to court and have them fined, or worse. The fear -for the parents- would be that not agreeing would be seen as not being reasonable.
     
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  3. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I don't get it. What of the following happened?

    Point of time 0: Crawley has her "research" idea. She wants to collect school data.

    Point of time 1: Crawley collects data and evaluates it. She finds a certain percentage of students with a certain amount of missing time and contacts the parents. (No anonymity!)
    Question: Is she (or anybody else) allowed to contact the school and ask for data of their students/pupils without consent of these persons? In Germany, this would be illegal.

    Point of time 2: Crawley "invites" parents to her clinic. Since parents are scared, they agree to come. No free choice.

    OR

    Point of time 1: Crawley contacts several students/pupils/parents and asks for their consent to collect their school data.
    Question: Why should a student/parent consent? At this time, it's a free choice.

    Point of time 2: Students/parents give their consent and are probably invited by Crawley etc.
     
  4. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,678
    Point of time 0: Crawley has her "research" idea. She wants to collect school data.

    Point of time 1: Crawley asks the schools if she can study their absent pupils.

    Point of time 2: The schools 'invite' the parents and children to attend a meeting, with Crawley and a school official attending the meeting. The data is collected.
     
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  5. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    4,602
    This seems an appropriate point at which to introduce something I started on an other thread.

    The ethical and legal frameworks are reasonably clear for a normal doctor/patient relationship when the patient is referred to a consultant by his GP.

    In situations where a doctor is effectively acting on behalf of the state, without express or implied consent of the patient, a legal regulatory and supervisory oversight is available.

    What is the situation in cases such as this, which is betwixt and between the two. The normal mediation of the GP seems to be missing. There is no statutory framework to protect the child.

    Are there clear ethical guidelines for the conduct of the consultant in such cases, and if so have they been complied with. Or is it envisaged that such interactions should not, and would not, take place without specific ad hoc oversight by an ethics committee?
     
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  6. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I see.

    Is that legal in the UK? The school provided sensitive data to a stranger (it's not important that the school didn't directly provide the data; it did so indirectly: By inviting strangers and pre-selected persons (pre-defined selection criterium: missing time) it is easy to link the persons with the variable "missing days"). AND this leads to identification. Both is not only problematic, but also illegal (at least in Germany). This should be checked.

    If this is legal in the UK - wow. :(
     
  7. guest001

    guest001 Guest

    I think Crawley perhaps was incapable of distinguishing her 2 roles here. I think she had a role as a community paediatrician - similar perhaps to that described on page 49 here - https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/system/file...gress_Main Curriculum Report 2018 (FINAL).pdf (or go to https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/progress and open RCPCH Progress Curriculum), ie holding clinics in various community settings including schools. As part of this she may potentially have been allowed access to school attendance records, who knows. She also had a different role as a NHS clinician and researcher, holding CFS/ME clinics in a hospital setting. Even if she legitimately had access to the school information and held it in her clever head, she surely did not have the right to transfer it from one role to another. Quite clearly in research ethical terms the 2 roles must be viewed as completely separate. If she’d had a part-time role as a receptionist maybe she’d have thought it ok to take the details of callers to use or contact for some research project; if she’d had a role on a hospital board similarly maybe she’d have thought it ok to use that information to swing some research funding.

    When you're saving the world, does it matter whether you are or aren't wearing your super-woman costume at the time?
     
    sea, MEMarge, ladycatlover and 8 others like this.
  8. guest001

    guest001 Guest

    This is not the same study..this refs to LP study.
     
  9. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
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    As a doctor she is simply not allowed to leak any patient data - or use it, no matter for what. If she is a "school doctor" she isn't allowed to do so, too.

    The same holds for the school itself.

    I am quite shocked.

    In the end, this really might be a legal case, if the pledge of secrecy was violated.
     
    Keela Too, ladycatlover and TiredSam like this.
  10. Sbag

    Sbag Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    420
    doh sorry - knew I would do something wrong - will remove it!
     
  11. guest001

    guest001 Guest

    No worries..it's incredibly hard trying to separate all these dastardly acts into their separate components isn't it? :confused::nerd:
     
    MEMarge, ladycatlover, Sbag and 7 others like this.
  12. TiredSam

    TiredSam Committee Member

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    10,498
    Location:
    Germany
    duty of confidentiality ;)

    Hope you don't mind, it's the English teacher in me.
     
    sea, MEMarge, ladycatlover and 5 others like this.
  13. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Fine for me, @TiredSam, I hope I won't forget (if so, just correct me again :) )
     
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  14. Adrian

    Adrian Administrator Staff Member

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    6,486
    Location:
    UK
    Personal information is normally collected for a purpose and consent is asked for it to be used for a given purpose. Also consent would need to be given to share information outside of the organization.

    The question is what terms for data sharing did parents agree to when the children were signed up to the school.

    But if the school or school nurse reviewed records and they then asked consent from parents to set up the meetings it may be legal but only if doing that was covered by the declared purpose.

    It does seem to raise questions around the data protection act and whether the school acted properly as the data controller. But maybe that is why ethics permission was not asked for.

    Germany has a reputation for having very strong privacy laws. I think the UK data protection act is basically derived from the EU laws.
     
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  15. Adrian

    Adrian Administrator Staff Member

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    Location:
    UK
    Does she have this role? She has a role in running the Bath clinic but I don't think she was on the local authority lists as a community paediatrician. Perhaps she did a long time ago?
     
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  16. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    4,393
    Does she say anything much?

    From the Tribunal's ruling on the PACE data:

    "Mr Matthees points to press releases from the Science Media Centre, a body working with PACE researchers, to the effect that they were "engineering the coverage" to “frame the narrative" in such a fashion to discredit those with legitimate criticisms as misguided extremists by sensationalising a small number of indefensible actions to the detriment of the vulnerable wider patient 'community'. This has been highlighted by respected scientists, and clinicians (see p8790/B7). Rather, no evidence of a 'silent majority' in support of the PACE trial has been put forward."

    http://www.informationtribunal.gov....iversity of London EA-2015-0269 (12-8-16).PDF
     
  17. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,678
    At change.org there is a petition after a child was forced to miss school celebrations as his attendance record did not reach the minimum standard. He has asthma and was sent home from school, but the 'rules' were enforced vigorously and he was punished for having an illness.

    https://www.change.org/p/justine-gr...al-conditions-for-their-attendance/u/22199801



    Here's an interesting comment from a parent on the petition about an attendance meeting.

    This seems to be a self confident and assertive parent, and look at how they felt. 'It was like being on trial'.
     
  18. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,602
    And this after the child was allegedly sent home from school one day because of the illness. Whatever happened to individual judgment in this country.

    The grumpy old f..... are about this morning.
     
  19. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    You can only consent if you know what you consent to. Any other consent - forced upon, non-informed, deceptive - is invalid.

    Even if a school asks from a parent the consent for sharing data to third parties (which I can't imagine is allowed), it would have had to be specified in which manner, what parts of the data, to whom etc. I am sure it wouldn't include the case where data is shared for "research" purposes. Here, data was shared indirectly, but knowledge was easily available, non-anonymously - and parents were under pressure.

    If I were one of those 'participants' in Mrs Crawley's 'study', I would go and get information about whether this process was okay and who could be taken responsibility for. Starting a petition, one like @Luther Blissett linked, could be an option if such processes are deemed to be legal.

    It reminds me strongly of fascist systems (e.g. Inquisition, DDR, a certain German time of history etc.), where data are collected about citizens, and if by any way you seem to be 'strange', you get problems.

    This cannot be accepted. And although I view the EU critically, it still wants the citizens to believe they have basic human rights, so I cannot imagine that EU law allows something like what happened during the school absence study.

    I can only hope what happened was an exception, but I fear not.
     
  20. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks for sharing this!
     

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