Trial By Error: Some Thoughts About an Upcoming Article

[Alvin]

In addition to Dave's 2 virology posts, what other preemptive moves can the community take?

Issue a media alert that a smear campaign against Dave is about to be launched and here is the context?

David vs Goliath headline.

Absolutely not. This is not a good idea in any way, shape or form. No one should do anything at all. And when it comes out, any response must be temperate and well-thought-out. I would urge everyone not to be reactive and possibly not to do anything at all even after the article comes out.

I think its worth having ready for future publication though i do agree preemptive publication may not be the best plan though its worth working on beforehand and be ready to deploy if necessary

Does the publishing entity answer to anyone, do they have an ethics board or are they publicly owned?

We do need to really think carefully and not just react off the cuff because this would need to be a finely played game of chess. We must not forget the Art of War, we must be nothing if not strategic.

This thread should be made established members only IMO

 

[Robert 1973]

I found it interesting that this seemed to be phrased as if I'd made some sort of shameful admission.

Worth remembering that Prof Chalder and many other authors of BPS studies are not medical doctors.

 

[Adrian]

I would so love to wake up to hearing a discussion on the Today programme between Jonathan and Sir Simon, or between any of the well-informed academics on our side and any of the PACE authors or their supporters.

We should remember that there is a big industry being build around MUS and the evidence is very very dodgy and also refers back to PACE. Its all wrapped up in getting money from the government to fund dodgy mental health strategies. With MPs questioning the research in one area perhaps they will look at others and start questioning the value of offering CBT everywhere rather than looking for more effective treatments.

 

[dave30th]

If this article appears and is as hostile as anticipated, I sincerely hope you will seek public statements of support from Berkeley and other academics who support your work.

When the article appears, I will obviously consider the appropriate response. As part of that, I will consider whether and how to involve Berkeley folks and other scientists/academics.

 

[dave30th]

Given how the UK media boycotted the HoC debate I'm not surprised.

My understanding is that these Thursday debates almost never get covered. I think it would be a mistake to automatically assume that it was not covered because it's about ME. I mean, that certainly wouldn't help. But we don't know that's why. It's just as likely because it was a Thursday back-bench debate.

 

[Esther12]

We must not forget the Art of War

Where would we be if we forgot the Art of War!

 

[dave30th]

I think its worth having ready for future publication though i do agree preemptive publication may not be the best plan though its worth working on beforehand and be ready to deploy if necessary

I am the only person who should even remotely be thinking about doing anything else preemptively. NO ONE ELSE MUST DO ANYTHING AT THE MOMENT--NOTHING. I cannot emphasize this strongly enough.

 

[Alvin]

I am the only person who should even remotely be thinking about doing anything else preemptively. NO ONE ELSE MUST DO ANYTHING AT THE MOMENT--NOTHING. I cannot emphasize this strongly enough.

Agreed.
I just meant that we should think about ideas of whats possible if they do drop the ball on you (with your permission of course)

 

[rvallee]

Could you tell me please whether you have suffered with CFS/ME, or whether you have friends or loved ones with the illness?

"Are you... are you one of... them?"

Not paranoid, no sir.

 

[Stewart]

What are BPS members going to do with this article? Wave it around in the hope of being taken seriously on the NICE guidelines committee?

I imagine they're going to show it to people who might otherwise take the concerns David raises seriously, and say "You really shouldn't listen to David Tuller. I know he *sounds* well reasoned but... look, don't take my word for it. Read this article about him, which was published in a respectable and independent media outlet..."

My understanding is that these Thursday debates almost never get covered. I think it would be a mistake to automatically assume that it was not covered because it's about ME. I mean, that certainly wouldn't help. But we don't know that's why. It's just as likely because it was a Thursday back-bench debate.

David's right. Backbench debates are highly unlikely to get any media coverage, unless they're on an issue that the media is already interested in. The media didn't ignore Carol Monaghan's debate because it was about ME - they almost certainly ignored it because it was a backbench debate, and that's what they usually do.

I just meant that we should think about ideas of whats possible if they do drop the ball on you (with your permission of course)

I don't think we need to think of any responses at this point. David is obviously already all over this - that's what today's blogs have been about. We should wait for the article and see how bad it is (if it is bad - perhaps it won't be) - then David can decide how he wants to respond (if at all) and if he wants us to assist in any way.

 

[dave30th]

I just meant that we should think about ideas of whats possible if they do drop the ball on you (with your permission of course)

Thinking about things is fine. But the problem with preparing a response is that that people are all ready to go with the response because it's ready rather than because it fits the circumstances.

 

[dave30th]

Also, to be clear--when/if the piece runs, it's not clear how much is about me and how much is about the community and not about me. So we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Alvin]

Thinking about things is fine. But the problem with preparing a response is that that people are all ready to go with the response because it's ready rather than because it fits the circumstances.

Fair enough, always good to properly tailor to the circumstances.

 

[DokaGirl]

@dave30th Stoke up that fund raising machine as it appears your just getting started![/QUOTE

Agreed, @Ron!

 

[Roy S]

@dave30th FYI, in case you have not seen this yet-

https://www.s4me.info/threads/spani...-by-leonid-schneider-for-better-science.7946/

 

[Tom Kindlon]

 

[DokaGirl]

Deny, Delay, Defame.

Thank you @dave30th for letting us know about this upcoming/potential smear job.

I agree with others this is only happening because of your effectiveness at bringing to light these important issues.

As for the "doctor" comment, it only takes common sense to see many of the glaring flaws in the PACE trial.

If all journalists were required to have a doctorate on every topic they wrote on there wouldn't be much news, or opinion to read.

Thank you so very much for your determination, and skill in working for good science, and the human rights of this community.

 

[Sean]

Agree with those who think that this forthcoming article is a sign that the work done by @dave30th is doing serious damage to the BPS clown show.

Also agree that we should wait and see what it actually says, and carefully consider our responses. Quite possible that we could use this to further expose their gutless smear campaign against science and patients.

"Are you... are you one of... them?"

I admit it, I am one of those who holds the fork in my right hand. The shame, the horror.

 

[Barry]

I expect and hope people will be extremely temperate in their responses.

I endorse this 100%.

I am the only person who should even remotely be thinking about doing anything else preemptively. NO ONE ELSE MUST DO ANYTHING AT THE MOMENT--NOTHING. I cannot emphasize this strongly enough.

And this another 100%!

So we'll just have to wait and see.

Exactly. Anything else would be going off half-cocked and playing into people's hands.

 

[TiredSam]

I found it interesting that this seemed to be phrased as if I'd made some sort of shameful admission.

It's setting up an argument from authority - Doctors have told me this, David Tuller isn't one so how can he possibly have the presumption to say they're wrong?

If DT was treating patients, it would be right to point out that he's not a doctor. But he's writing, and he's qualified to do so because he's a journalist, so what's the problem with him doing his job? If we want to go down the road of people straying into areas where they have no expertise, there are plenty of examples of that amongst the BPS crew.

Could you tell me please whether you have suffered with CFS/ME, or whether you have friends or loved ones with the illness?

Another pathetic attempt at a "gotcha" - if he says yes, he's running an emotionally driven campaign. If he says no, in addition to not being a doctor, he has no first hand experience of ME so obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.

I am ready to sit at the barricades and do absolutely nothing.