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Trial By Error: CBT and Irritable Bowel Syndrome

Discussion in 'Other psychosomatic news and research' started by Cheshire, Jan 24, 2020.

  1. Eagles

    Eagles Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    176
    Trial By Error: My Letter to One of Mahana’s Gastroenterology Advisors

    http://www.virology.ws/2020/02/05/t...-to-one-of-mahanas-gastroenterology-advisors/

    5 February 2020

    By David Tuller, DrPH

    On its website, Mahana Therapeutics has listed sixteen gastroenterology and psychology advisors from prominent academic and medical institutions. Companies often add such names to their rosters as a way of signaling their significance and their access to great minds. Sometimes these people are compensated; sometimes not. In many instances, these advisors play little role in day-to-day company activities.

    In the case of Mahana, that means those advisors not directly involved in the development of the web-based cognitive behavior therapy program for treating irritable bowel syndrome might have little knowledge or awareness of the details of the matter. However, that doesn’t mean they have no responsibility to express their thoughts on the company’s promotional strategy–especially because Mahana itself has so far failed to respond to my questions…
     
  2. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    @dave30th , a couple of typos.
    A rogue "u" in "already".

    I don't think "of" should be there.
     
    Invisible Woman likes this.
  3. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Andy, thanks! I will mark them [sic] since they were in the letter as sent!
     
  4. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Indeed it does appear that IAPT is targeting IBD, Crohn's and ulcerative colitis, with iCBT.
    https://twitter.com/user/status/1222572177632976896


    And it appears to be the same exact same tripe: 'It's about willpower in the end. You've got to keep going': a qualitative study exploring the experience of pain in inflammatory bowel disease.
     
  5. shak8

    shak8 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm having a moment of CBT-induced diarrhea...back in a moment or so.
     
  6. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Who makes up the names? After Windgassen, we get KLou. I think a study on nominative determinism is needed.
     
    Joh, TiredSam, ukxmrv and 3 others like this.
  7. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Windgassen seems an unfortunate name for anyone who wants to be taken seriously. Especially if they are in the business of bowel trouble. And they specialise in hot air.
     
    Joh, TiredSam, dangermouse and 10 others like this.
  8. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I suppose you might want to deliver CBT at a bit of a distance if there is bowel trouble about.
    Maybe that's why they have invented this.
    The Monty Python script writers would have died for this stuff.
     
  9. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Location:
    Canada
    With regards to Moss-Moriss and the rest of the cabal:

    If facts were scenery CBT is a bullet train straight to the destination. No need to complicate things. Everything en route to destination is irrelevant. Any contrary thing is just an obstacle to overcome (they have right the strong mental attitude so they use it).

    One imagines they no doubt perceive themselves as hard working and relevant. What seems more likely to me is that they are very busy people juggling lots of things in their full lives. Not the same thing as relevant. And being hard-working in the sense of very busy is not the same as doing the hard work that requires the correct skills, tools and learning, patience and a willingness to exert one's mind beyond the comfortable confines of one's preconceptions. They seem to have mastered persistence even as they make haste directly to the wrong station.

    Also, testing how to disprove one's theories (as MS has pointed out on twitter apparently--intelligent people doubt). So you'd expect that to apply to their theories.

    From everything I've read from this lot hard working in the second sense is not their strong suit.

    But they are likely very busy.
     
  10. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks for the humour.

    Great bird image - is it an albatross (which one)?
     
    Invisible Woman likes this.
  11. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    Short version: It is all your fault if you don't get better.
     
    Joh, dangermouse, lycaena and 7 others like this.
  12. James Morris-Lent

    James Morris-Lent Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It may be worse than that in this case. Inflammatory Bowel Diseases are not MUS by any definition. So now they are projecting catastrophization or whatever bogus ideas on top of diseases in which pain may well signal an urgent problem. It would be a tad irresponsible if they were to, perhaps, discourage people from utilizing healthcare resources for symptoms which may indicate critical intestinal damage.
     
  13. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    It is utter madness. The early signs of many serious diseases are vague and non-specific.

    All they are going to achieve with this drivel is to increase morbidity and (where relevant) mortality in most if not all disease groups by delaying and/or diluting diagnosis and treatment.

    Does the rest of medicine really not understand what is happening here, and its consequences?

    This stuff is nothing more than naked empire building, cowardice in refusing to admit they are wrong, and corruption in offering excuses to governments and the insurance industry to not provide proper health services.

    This is very depressing stuff.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  14. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    A blog from James Coyne in 2016
    No, irritable bowel syndrome is not all in your head.
    https://www.coyneoftherealm.com/2016/05/21/no-irritable-bowel-syndrome-is-not-all-in-your-head/
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
    Amw66, Sean, EzzieD and 4 others like this.
  15. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Trial by Error: My Follow-Up Letter to Professor Rona Moss-Morris

    Ten days ago, I sent a letter to Professor Rona Moss-Morris of King’s College London, seeking information about the licensing deal involving her web-based program of cognitive behavior therapy to treat irritable bowel syndrome. Since I have not heard back, this morning I made a second attempt to reach out to her and obtain some answers to my questions.

    http://www.virology.ws/2020/02/10/t...QkloVuvTetgDQxbHEYfdxFYdnCBzYrb3bwU3XM4K_aBJ8
     
    TiredSam, EzzieD, rainy and 11 others like this.
  16. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Not surprising she has not answered. What answer can she give? She must know by now that non-sequiturs are not going to help her bluff through as a legitimate answer to valid questions.
     
    Sean, NelliePledge, rvallee and 4 others like this.
  17. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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  18. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

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    Trial By Error: My Letter to Two More Mahana GI Advisors


    http://www.virology.ws/2020/02/11/trial-by-error-my-letter-to-two-more-mahana-gi-advisors/
     
    TiredSam, mango, EzzieD and 9 others like this.
  19. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Trial By Error: My letter to Mahana's CEO and CO-founder

    Venture capitalist Robert Paull is listed on the Mahana Therapeutics website as the company’s co-founder and CEO. I have no idea how he got involved with this group of UK researchers and King’s College London. Given my own experiences, I would certainly have advised him against getting in bed with them, had he asked me–which he didn’t.

    As it is, Mr Paull’s company has now licensed a product that generates minimal and transient reported benefits in reducing symptom severity in irritable bowel syndrome–yet is promoting the product based on its purported success in long-term reduction of symptom severity. I pointed out this dilemma in the letter I sent Mr Paull earlier today.
     
  20. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I hope the end result is the company collapses.

    I can see the point of @dave30th pursuing this, even though his funding is for ME/CFS, not IBS. Rona Moss-Morris is heavily involved in doing the same sort of crap research and treatment for ME/CFS, and undoubtedly she and her colleague Trudie Chalder have plans in place to set up a similar company to sell their crap on-line CBT for ME/CFS as well, which I'm sure would be taken up with enthusiasm by the NHS.

    If this IBS venture can be stopped in its tracks before it fully launches, not only will it help patients with IBS, there should be a knock on effect for patients with ME/CFS too - I hope.
     

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