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Trial By Error: CBT and Irritable Bowel Syndrome

Discussion in 'Other psychosomatic news and research' started by Cheshire, Jan 24, 2020.

  1. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    For years, CBT has been used successfully to treat health issues like chronic pain (4) heart disease (5) and multiple sclerosis (6). Parallel takes CBT online to help reduce the severity of IBS.

    That looks like a very lawyerly piece of drafting. It claims only that the use was successful. It makes no claims as to the success of the treatment.
     
  2. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Moss-Morris' name is on all but one paper. Chalder on two (of 8).

    So those papers and trials, including the latest one, had the express purpose of promoting a commercial product. Authored by a shareholder in the product. OK, then. This is definitely good and well-intentioned science with great ethics and sound methdology.
     
    TiredSam, dangermouse, EzzieD and 7 others like this.
  3. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    yes and the stock options were not mentioned in the IBS study. Just the payment.
     
    dangermouse, EzzieD, Mithriel and 8 others like this.
  4. Ravn

    Ravn Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Can't help but think of Mahana apples. An apple a day...
    Surely MAT (Mahana Apple Therapy) would be cheaper than digital CBT - and possibly safer and more effective, at least for IBS-C.
     
    Invisible Woman likes this.
  5. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Seems this hasn't been shared yet?

    Trial by Error: My FOI Request to King's College London: My Letter to Mahana Therapeutics

    Yesterday I sent a freedom-of-information request to King’s College London about the recently announced licensing deal it has with Mahana Therapeutics. The deal involves a web-based CBT program for irritable bowel syndrome, which I have written about here and here. This morning I sent a note to the e-mail address for press contact listed on Mahana’s site.

    http://www.virology.ws/2020/01/27/t...dLacr8XRRh_zHdBRJ_9KbqnZv8UkX_WzNwo2sRhwnSnAw
     
    TiredSam, Andy, EzzieD and 7 others like this.
  6. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Seems strange that Mahana is a Bangla name, yet none of the founders are from India!?!
     
  7. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Mahana is also apparently a Tahitian word for sun, sunlight or day. There is a beach in Hawaii called Mahana beach. The word also occurs in other Pacific cultures including New Zealand with various meanings. I think Moss Morris was in New Zealand for a while, she may even be from there. Perhaps that's where it came from.
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mahana
     
  8. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I thought it was probably a typo for Manana. As in pay for the therapy now and we guarantee that you'll get better... Sometime... Perhaps.
     
  9. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    None of the Founders are Hawaiian or Maori either, so it still seems like cultural appropriation...
     
  10. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Have a look at the Mahana website. It seems to be based in California. Heavy on impressive sounding CV's of directors and advisers, light on content, and so far as I can see, only one product - the web based therapy tool for IBS.

    Rona Moss-Morris is listed as an adviser - so has a very clear conflict of interest with her research findings being touted as more significant than reality. The whole existence of that company depends on that one product being shown to work.

    They are already advertising that they expect to create a product for IBD even before it's been researched. So a massive conflict of interest for Moss Morris if she's involved in that IBD research.
     
  11. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    IBS is clearly seen as a moneyspinner. They are now trialling that old ‘favourite’ amitryptiline https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51265389. Not a fan personally. Seems too much of a scattergun approach for tricyclics just as with CBT. If you don’t know what to do for someone give em amitryptiline or send them for CBT or both. And hope that keeps them quiet for a few years......
     
    dangermouse, EzzieD, Chezboo and 6 others like this.
  12. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    My alleged IBS, that I was diagnosed with many times over many years, turned out to be a physical problem that was 95% cured with surgery. Nearly 20 years later there has been some minor deterioration over the years but I'd still say the "cure" I got is keeping 85% of the pain and associated problems away (in the area where the corrective surgery was done - I still have other areas of bowel in dire need of attention).
     
  13. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Can anyone see the purpose of the word "clinically" in that quote?
     
  14. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    it is a very badly written sentence that is meant I think to read: "with clinically effective and cost-effective treatments..."
    the word "effective" is meant to relate to both clinically and "cost-"--or so I think.
     
  15. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I would assume she means cutting down on clinic time spent on these patients in addition to reducing the costs of prescribed medication etc.
     
  16. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Trial by Error: More on the Mahana Therapeutics Deal

    In the end this big licensing deal seems like a lot of noise about very little. But I assume someone somewhere will be making money from it. Nice!

    Judging by the website, Parallel is Mahana’s only product. But get ready for more good news down the line! Here’s what we also learn on the site:

    Mahana is currently developing a personalized digital treatment for adolescents and adults with Inflammatory Bowel Disease. This product will be tested in a series of research studies and randomized, controlled trials. This treatment will tap into the power of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) to help patients living with IBD.
     
    Joh, TiredSam, Andy and 14 others like this.
  17. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The "power" to change answers on a questionnaire is a sight to behold!

    I hope the IBD community reacts accordingly. The ME-BPS paradigm is deadly and inflicts massive suffering. For IBS, it's more of useless nonsense that is insulting but is unlikely to lead to serious injury. IBD is a whole other issue, though. People will die if they swallow the onion and pursue this instead of real medical treatment.
     
  18. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It sure saves a lot of work and money. I.e. rather than looking at gut microbiome and correlating that to symptoms of IBS and trying to understand if altered microbiome is cause or effect --- lots of complicated questions. Just talk nice to people and rake in the cash with this "treatment".

    One question I have is are the indicators of "improvement" objective? I don't trust questionnaires; show interest in people, who are generally ignored, and get them to fill in a questionnaire --- very suspect.
     
  19. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    well I have some sympathy for them on that aspect because there really aren't good biomarkers to use for IBS studies. The findings were all subjective questionnaires--the main one a symptom severity scale for IBS that's a fairly standard thing. And it showed very modest improvements on that. They did not use objective findings like more days at work or reduced use of health services that could have been proxy measures indicative of possible objective changes.
     
  20. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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