1. Guest, clicking here will take you to the 'News in Brief' post for w/c 2nd Dec.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

The Guardian's Science Weekly podcast - 2 November 2018 - What role should the public play in science?

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS News' started by Sarah, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. JemPD

    JemPD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    7,374
    If it were up to me we'd not bother to publicise it at all. Linking to it on twitter so it gets loads of views will only encourage the guardian that this is a newsworthy & well 'read' piece, that loads of people are interested in. And MS will simply adore the controversy & drama of it.
    I'm furious & sick that its been done but lets not promote it in our outrage
     
    Annamaria, RuthT, Simone and 7 others like this.
  2. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,675
    Likes Received:
    31,156
    Location:
    UK
    here is the full transcript:
     
  3. Manganus

    Manganus Established Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    337
    Location:
    Canary islands, Spain
    Thanks from me too. :thumbup:

    I've not read the transcript yet, but I will be able to, ultimately, contrary to spoken conversations. :(
     
  4. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,932
    Likes Received:
    14,106
    Thank you so much for doing that, Sly. I have real problems taking in information from videos and a transcript is much easier.
     
  5. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,675
    Likes Received:
    31,156
    Location:
    UK
    So now I can finally comment on the rubbish spouted on the podcast and I can't think of anything to say; I used up all the expletives while I was doing the transcription:p

    thanks for all the thanks. I would say it was a pleasure, but having to listen to MS over and over.......
     
  6. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,779
    Likes Received:
    8,827
    With regard to depression, I think there are conflicting findings from prospective studies.

    I also think a big issue with prospective studies in the field is that it often takes a long time to get diagnosed. So it is claimed somebody had depression before they got ME or a CFS when really they had ME or CFS at that time but it hadn’t been diagnosed. Having ME or CFS especially without a diagnosis could be depressing. Or the symptoms were interpreted as those of depression when the person simply had undiagnosed ME or CFS.

    Until these issues are tackled, my confidence in prospective studies in the field is low.
     
    MSEsperanza, lycaena, ArtStu and 15 others like this.
  7. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,779
    Likes Received:
    8,827
    A lot of the published research on genetics uses the CDC’s so-called “empiric” criteria (Reeves et al. , 2005) which are really rubbish and for example include a lot of people with major depressive disorder and not CFS.
     
  8. large donner

    large donner Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,051
    Likes Received:
    8,579


    Of course these notions can't be beyond the understanding of the average psychiatrist. They are just inconvenient when you are trying to promote a soundbite using implication to reach an uncritical audience via an uncritical journalist.

    If Michael is so convinced of his arguments lets just put our best person forward to have a recorded debate with him to be put on YouTube.

    Let's see him be challenged using sources and data, even his own data, and lets have an instant come back opportunity for every statement he claims to make is fact.

    Lets put up his duplicitous statements (over numerous years and how he changes them depending on his audience) on a large screen in a debate hall. Let him defend the PACE trial, the recovery definition, the change of protocol issue etc etc. Surely then he will be able to set the "activists" straight once and for all?

    How about it Michael?
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  9. large donner

    large donner Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,051
    Likes Received:
    8,579
    People who have had demonic possession in the past are more likely to develop
    epilepsy.
     
    Kafka, Forbin, EzzieD and 8 others like this.
  10. Tom Kindlon

    Tom Kindlon Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    966
    Likes Received:
    9,308
     
    Lisa108, EzzieD, Sly Saint and 9 others like this.
  11. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,708
    Likes Received:
    10,970
    It's actually Wessely et al. who started that "all in the mind" meme by saying ME is not a real disease, just the belief to have an illness called ME; that it's real vs. unreal. This wasn't said just once, this was repeated all over their publications and interviews and lectures.

    Edit:
    Well well, ain't that a new spin in the game! So many quotes where they actually said "CF, CFS, ME...all neurasthenia."
     
    Lisa108, EzzieD, Simone and 7 others like this.
  12. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    10,717
    Location:
    Mid-Wales
  13. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,124
    Likes Received:
    20,863
    Simone, MEMarge, andypants and 2 others like this.
  14. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,875
    Likes Received:
    59,982
    I think it will be more productive for me to make comments through other channels.
     
    2kidswithME, ArtStu, EzzieD and 12 others like this.
  15. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,124
    Likes Received:
    20,863
    Excellent. That journalist can't be too happy that Sharpe led him towards producing a nonsense article. At least I hope he sees it that way, instead of militants attacking his good reporting.
     
    EzzieD, Simone, Sean and 7 others like this.
  16. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    10,717
    Location:
    Mid-Wales
    I wish I could say more, but I can't, but the journalist (IS) already has an interest in this via someone else.
     
  17. ladycatlover

    ladycatlover Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,052
    Likes Received:
    11,298
    Location:
    Liverpool, UK
    I note that Sharpe doesn't mention how much public money they spent on resisting releasing their data to the public! Or that it was found they weren't threatened.

    Plus they are trying to tie us to vaccine deniers too:

     
    MEMarge, EzzieD, Cheshire and 8 others like this.
  18. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,151
    Likes Received:
    33,707
    Only have to read that bit to see what a fabrication it is.
    If he had that capacity it would have shown long ago.
     
    Inara, EzzieD, Cheshire and 6 others like this.
  19. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,151
    Likes Received:
    33,707
    What this clearly shows is the very proactive PR machine that MS and Co operate; it's the one thing they are very good at. If only their science was anything like as good.
     
    rvallee, Inara, ukxmrv and 8 others like this.
  20. ahimsa

    ahimsa Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    6,319
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Thank you so much for the transcript. Won't be able to read it today - marking it to read later.
     
    andypants, Inara, Simone and 3 others like this.

Share This Page