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The Grievance Studies

Discussion in 'Health News and Research unrelated to ME/CFS' started by Daisybell, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. Daisybell

    Daisybell Moderator Staff Member

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    I hadn’t come across these academics before today...
    I was laughing on the one hand and horrified on the other.
     
  2. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There is a disturbing tolerance for trash research in a lot of journals, and I've seen some criticism that this hoax doesn't really show much about grievance studies (as opposed to anything else):

    https://slate.com/technology/2018/10/grievance-studies-hoax-not-academic-scandal.html

    That the problems are not specific to grievance studies makes them all the more worrying! I feel like my youthful respect for academia has led to a deep disdain for the system now.
     
  3. Michiel Tack

    Michiel Tack Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    From watching the video it looks like the authors of the hoax are more concerned with political bias than with poor scientific methodology, hence the focus on gender studies etc.
     
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  4. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  5. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm all for more rigour in academia and research so am pleased to see when questionable practices are exposed.
     
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  6. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It is not clear initially, but if you click on "comment" you can see comments on this article.
    The article involves some ad hominem arguments.
     
  7. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There seem to be ad-homs and overly-generalised statements on both sides. I felt that some people were over-hyping the importance of the hoax, and some people were being overly dismissive of it and its perpetrators. I don't feel supportive of either side, both of whom seem to downplay how damaging and widespread the problems in academia are.

    Also, I'm doubtful these hoaxes are a good use of effort compared to the work of actually picking apart a widely cited and influential paper that is junk, but was intended to be serious. Maybe that's because I already start from the assumption that there's loads of trash in the peer-reviewed literature though, and for those who aren't PACE obsessives these sorts of hoaxes are a useful reminder?
     
  8. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    I came across Boghossian a couple of weeks ago. The parallel course to my presentations course at a local university is Cultural Studies, which I actually foolishly assumed was the study of different cultures. I've recently discovered that it's a marxist post-structuralist post-modernist blah blah ideological indoctrination program in which students lose points in their exam for transgressing the bounds of cultural relativism, thinking independently (sorry, "analysing outside the discipline") or having a personal opinion. When I tried to discuss this with my colleague who teaches the course, she said that universities are ideological battlegrounds, that for her, unlike me, marxism is far from a dirty word, and that as we were operating from different assumptions she didn't have time to explain it to me.

    Fortunately all of this is way over the heads of the students anyway - this week I asked how many of them could tell me what "hegemony" means (10 weeks into their 14-week indoctrination), and none of them could (I was pleased to discover). But it's been quite an eye opener, and I don't much care for it, I can tell you.
     
  9. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    This is the kind of stuff:

    http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/

    I started reading up on it and got as far as Derrida before deciding my time could be better spent not bothering.
     
  10. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I got as far as reading the title:
    Huh?

    No, don't bother to explain.
     
  11. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It's good that cultural hegemony doesn't exist or we would have been struggling against a philosophy of our illness and things like MUS that are the dominant and accepted common sense of the powerful. In no way have these social constructs been imposed, and there has been no narrative that we are dangerous radicals posing a threat to the established order of things.

    As it doesn't exist, there have been no attempts at counter-hegemony, and the view that we are mentally ill is now accepted as the natural order of things.
     
  12. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    It's a spoof, just postmodernist text generated at random every time you load the webpage. Indistinguishable from the real thing though. If anything can be said to be real.
     
  13. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    :D Caught me out.
     
  14. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I see that there was no control group for the experiment. Such science!

    They say it discredits Sociology despite all the journals rejecting their papers? They could only get the papers published in low impact journals. They faked quanitative data in order to get papers published? 75% of their papers were rejected? They use evidence from the rejected papers to argue for the journal being bad? Innovative. Nobody reads the journals, yet at the same time they are painfully influential. Interesting logic.

    They are popular in online magazines edited by eugenicists? Cool.

    One of authors said that #MeToo was "what happens when definitions are too expansive and victimhood narratives are socially rewarded". Oh you stupid hysterical victimhood claiming women. You're just overreacting.

    Seems like a nice bunch of scientific and non-biased people here. Glad they're keeping academics honest. I was worried about reactionary scientific bigotry there for a moment.
     
  15. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    P.s we are aware that they consider the study of what life is like for Disabled people as 'Grievance Studies' too?
     
  16. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  17. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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  18. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Steven Pinker also thinks that women penetrated without their consent are not victims of sexual assault, so I don't really care for his ethical views.

    Somebody should tell Richard that they can't claim it is serious scientific work, while at the same time it is satire of a 'creative expression'. They still made up data, and complained about fields that didn't even fall for their 'hoax'.

    Source for my Pinker claim:

    (content warning of discussion of rape and sexual assualt)
     
  19. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I thought that the hoax project itself was over-hyped and not particularly illuminating, but at the same time I think it's important the academia stay open to self-criticism (even when not particularly well done) and I'm concerned by disciplinary proceedings being started against these researchers.

    Although... at the same time I do think that there are problems with some of what they did, and we've seen the problems that can be caused when institutions avoid following their own rules. I guess there is a problem with creating a system which incentivises academics to waste their time and others on hoaxes that don't reveal much but let themselves generate media hype for themselves.

    To make an informed judgement on this would probably require more work than I'm willing to do (which is how so many institutions are able to get away with a misuse of their disciplinary proceedings).
     
  20. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree Steven Pinker isn't someone worth reading.

    I'm unaware that they have ever claimed it was a serious scientific work, I thought they were the first to admit that it was complete rubbish. It was the journal Gender, Place, and Culture who recognised their paper about canine rape culture in dog parks for excellence, showing that they couldn't tell the difference between their version of science (which is really political ideology) and complete rubbish, which was the point of the exercise.

    You have responded to a lot of points which nobody actually made or argued.

    Who said that?

    Not everything is a social construct, hegemony has existed for thousands of years, long before marxism, capitalism, or the Birmingham school of cultural studies. It is not the only way to view everything, and it personally pisses me off that my students who just want to be English teachers are forced to learn this crap and analyse different cultures from a neo-marxist perspective or lose points in the exam. The lecturers aren't even honest about what they are doing or where this stuff comes from, and any view from "outside the discipline" is labelled as personal opinion or being universalist, which is a crime against cultural relativism (which is a fine thing in anthropology where it came from but it doesn't have to be elevated to religious status and become the refuge of human rights violations). Again, this loses points in the exam. So basically students who just want to be teachers are forced by the gatekeepers of their education and qualification to recite this crap before being allowed to pass through.

    As an example, if one of my students wanted to talk about this story from the news today:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-46806485

    (Rahaf al-Qunun: UN 'considers Saudi woman a refugee')

    They would lose points for including criticisms from outside Saudi culture. Quite how that squares with a feminist perspective isn't really a problem for neo-marxist post structuralist post modernists because they can just accuse you of being logocentric. They have exempted themselves from logical discourse and rationalism thanks to Derrida and his pals, so they don't actually have to answer questions or engage in debate, just keep saying everything's about hegemony and the patriarchy, which makes it easy for them because they only have one thing to remember, but very annoying for everyone else, including plenty of feminists and others they claim to speak for. I spend every Monday being confronted with this crap.
     

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