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Prevalence and Treatment of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/ME and Co-morbid Severe Health Anxiety, 2019, Daniels et al

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS Research' started by Dolphin, Nov 26, 2019.

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  1. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Merged thread - paper now published.

    (Definitely not a recommendation)

    (Yes, this is Jo Daniels of "shopping bags" fame and a member of the NICE committee)

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1697260019302479
    This essentially describes the current model, it just phrases it slightly differently. So the current paradigm is convincing evidence but also should be examined for the first time ever (actually the 50th or so).

    The conclusion is particularly egregious:
    This is not the first study of exactly this, in fact there probably are at least two dozen identical ones. It literally is the current paradigm, so the suggestion that this is the first study is specutacularly wrong and ignorant. It's still not actual evidence of anything, this is pure cherry-picking and outcome-seeking.

    The confused comparisons with depression essentially amount to an ecologist who insists that elephants and rocks are essentially the same thing since they are both hard and grey. Experts are not supposed to be confused by superficial similarities. Or they could sit on an expert panel for the topic they display blatant ignorance. Both work, I guess.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2020
  2. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It's notable that this level of incompetence and willful ignorance should be as disqualifying as an expert arguing for the "refrigerator mother" model of autism should be disqualified on the topic of autism, or even anything, really.

    Not that this will make any difference but it truly reflects the massive incompetence at NICE that this person was accepted on a panel despite showing blatant confusion and misunderstanding of pretty much everything, including it seems the entirety of the last 30 years or even what is the current paradigm.
     
  3. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    Ha ha Jo “shopping bags” Daniels her BPS mafia name.
     
  4. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Fukuda criteria used, high proportion with comorbid depression and/or anxiety. No mention of how many if any had PEM. I don't believe the patients who apparently improved so dramatically on CFQ and SF-36 PF in so short a time had ME.
     
  5. InfiniteRubix

    InfiniteRubix Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  6. InfiniteRubix

    InfiniteRubix Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Is there anyone else on the NICE committee who uses S4ME whom one should tag for such things?
     
  7. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  8. InfiniteRubix

    InfiniteRubix Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I genuinely believe that a combination of 1) questionable intellectual capacity and 2) self preserving incentivisation/cartel behaviour across the BACME BPS cabal means these people are not going to absorb the points you raise.

    We rightly cannot receive comment from within NICE deliberations. But if matters are properly considered to their logical conclusions, I cannot see how reference to research of this embarrassing calibre by Daniels et al would not result in their actual humiliation. It's not the objective, of course, but I've seen academic presentations result in extreme blushes and even hidden tears for much less.

    I am not trying to be obtuse, but there is no space for the committee to suffer fools. I do hope that punches are not pulled - pwME would end up suffering to massage/protect egos. I hope that decorum is not an overriding arbiter of any discourse.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  9. InfiniteRubix

    InfiniteRubix Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I don't want to divert the thread, but what does this mean?
     
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  10. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  11. InfiniteRubix

    InfiniteRubix Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    MEMarge, LadyBirb, rvallee and 8 others like this.
  12. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Or many might have ME but such subjective measures are subject to massive bias. Probably somewhere in between.
     
  13. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm full of admiration for the S4ME members who are serving on the NICE committee with Jo Daniels. I think if it was me, I might have a lapse of professionalism and 'inadvertently' have the plastic bag scene from American Beauty playing as I went to share a draft on screen. Or something a whole lot more overt.
     
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  14. InfiniteRubix

    InfiniteRubix Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Hear hear :emoji_trophy::emoji_basketball:
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  15. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    loved that scene. maybe it can be digitally redone with a shopping bag?
     
  16. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    One wishes to be careful in what one writes, but Jo Daniel's views on health anxiety may be coloured by her own experience. There were recent reports on the BBC about a call for more male blood donors. The photograph seemed to match. It is a most unfortunate situation. Apparently the iron content of male blood can be of significance.
     
  17. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    S4ME shopping bags, what a great idea.
    (seriously, they're not that expensive [non-plastic]):)
     
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  18. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    If they are to be used in psychology experiments they had better be recyclable. Everything else is.
     
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  19. InfiniteRubix

    InfiniteRubix Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Sorry, I am lost as to what you mean. I am brain fogged.... :(
     
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  20. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I fail to understand how "Bags" Daniels or anyone else who has had contact with anyone with ME (apart from the very mildest and most recent onset) doesn't learn the opposite is true.

    Most of us are too sick to interact much with the NHS at all. They tend to make it difficult. I know I have put off getting things checked out and I doubt I'm alone in that.

    A GP has actually said to me - we haven't seen you for ages.... Or nag about going to breast clinic assessments, smear tests, blood tests that I have let slide until I feel well enough to get them done & doing them won't knock me back for weeks.

    Health anxiety, my rear.....
     
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