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Perturbation of effector and regulatory T cell subsets in Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS) (2019) Karhan, Unutmaz et al

Discussion in 'BioMedical ME/CFS Research' started by strategist, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Moderator note: See this post in the thread for the preprint.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2020
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  2. Jaybee00

    Jaybee00 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    So maybe there might be some benefit to wiping out abnormal T cells with cyclophosphamide.....
     
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  3. wigglethemouse

    wigglethemouse Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Lipkin is already looking at these subsets. The collaboration is really good to see, happening before publication! This is a quote from the end of Ian Lipkin's CDC talk taken from the YouTube transcript.
     
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  4. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    These guys are also going to publish soon. Hopefully these in-depth investigations will finally reveal something about the cause of the illness.

     
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  5. Andy

    Andy Committee Member & Outreach

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    For those that don't know, Brodin Petter is from the Karolinska Institute in Sweden.
     
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  6. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Let's see the proper data, but it would be interesting if it holds up.

    If we want to knock out T cells Campath-1H is that thing to use.
     
  7. wigglethemouse

    wigglethemouse Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm assuming this is the project that was started 1 June 2016, before the centers were announced, and funded at $650,000 per year per this information. No ME/CFS papers have been reported under this grant yet.

    Title : DECODING IMMUNOLOGICAL PERTURBATIONS DURING CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME
    https://projectreporter.nih.gov/project_info_description.cfm?aid=9716375&icde=31258613
     
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  8. Jaybee00

    Jaybee00 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Jonathan Edwards

    Campath-1H is less dangerous in your opinion than cyclophosphamide? Also what is the difference between Campath-1H (humanized) and Alemtuzumab?

    Thanks
     
  9. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think alemtuzumab is the post-hoc generic name for the same antibody that started out as Campath. It targets CD52 which is on all lymphocytes but the long term effect is restricted to memory T cells since B cells return after about 3 months.

    T cell depletion with a monoclonal is much better in terms of benefit/side effects. Enough cyclo to deplete T cells long term means violent nausea and infection risk from neutropenia. Smaller doses of cyclo have little long term effect.
     
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  10. butter.

    butter. Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    These findings seem a bit weird to me, these are the kind of things we would have found 20 years ago, no?

    I also remember Dr. Davis saying that when he lowered Th17, some markers actually got worse (gut permeability).
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
  11. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Not sure what you are referring to exactly. So far we have not been told what the findings are. MAIT cells did not exist 20 years ago. But it is true that several other groups have looked at lymphocyte subsets and not found anything very dramatic.
     
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  12. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That raises all sorts of interesting epistemological questions.
     
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  13. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    No it just means I was teasing.
     
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  14. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    A short while ago we had a thread in which strong views were expressed regarding the use of sarcasm and irony.
     
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  15. Marky

    Marky Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Long ago i got the finding that "Approximately 33 % of the CD4+ T-lymphocytes are CD45RA and CDRO double positive", always been curious if it had any relevance to ME. Wonder if they looked at that
     
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  16. Rain

    Rain Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Checked the price, and assume this to be way out of any ME-research funding league... Are there any cheaper options that could work?
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
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  17. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I do not want to.
     
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  18. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    If there was good evidence for it being a sensible thing to use the cost would not be a big issue. It is similar to rituxmab and we have already had a full size phase 3 trial of that.
     
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  19. Badpack

    Badpack Established Member (Voting Rights)

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  20. wastwater

    wastwater Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    If you have low amounts of T regulatory cells do you then get high levels of activated T cells I wonder with my crude understanding of this
     
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