Paul Garner on Long Covid and ME/CFS - BMJ articles and other media.

David F Marks has made a rapid riposte to the Time's article's interviewing of Garner (with a photo of Garner so no one misses the point of David Mark's article).

'Trash Science of Positive Thinking'

“Victim-blaming, gaslighting and the ‘all-in-the-mind’ philosophy of lazy doctors will become the mainstay of Long-Covid patients’ everyday experience. Just like the #MECFS patients before them.”

https://davidfmarks.com/2022/01/17/trash-science-of-positive-thinking/
 
Garner has resorted to quoting an early 20th century text on Neurasthenia -

'When Professor Garner thinks of long Covid, he has his own preferred historical example. Jamieson Hurry was a Cambridge-educated GP in Reading. In 1915 he wrote a book titled The Vicious Circles of Neurasthenia. It covered the “morbid irritability and fatiguability of the nervous system” — and its link to our own thoughts.......
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For anyone else curious about Garner's reading material, I've found a copy of this text here:

PDF: https://ia600303.us.archive.org/10/items/viciouscirclesof00hurruoft/viciouscirclesof00hurruoft.pdf
Other formats: https://archive.org/details/viciouscirclesof00hurruoft
 
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strategist said:
I've never observed this "fear fuels the illness" phenomenon.
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It's especially dumb to apply this to the pandemic LC even though none of this applies to almost all ME cases before then, even as they claim it's the same thing. They invent necessary conditions for their beliefs, but never care that they mostly don't apply, simply because no one in a position to do something cares either. They eat their cake, have it, then sell NFT copies that they claim are just as nutritious as the real thing.

All this should be laughed out of every room it's mentioned. Instead it's used as an actual replacement to reality, forced onto millions who explicitly say "hell no". If physicians started paying attention to what long haulers are saying about them, they'd understand they are effectively destroying the credibility of their profession. It simply doesn't work to pretend that it's based on science when blatant pseudoscience is just as popular.

And they see the consequences of that breach of trust every day, it plays out massively with the antivaccine movement. But they never make the connection because they can't imagine not having infinite credibility, no matter what they say, even as they blatantly lie to people's faces. Medicine is seriously weird at times. Authority simply destroys people's judgment.
 
Yes, I'm not on twitter so for my own personal note to posterity - thank-you Jonas Kunst.

It's always encouraging to see someone who can tell the difference between science and opinion masquerading as science and who can recognise the main support for pseudo-scientific opinion is the straw man argument. So many people just don't bother any more.
 
Reading that book which Garner has mentioned, all I can think is that the CBT/GET people are a sect with outlandish views that preys on vulnerable members of society and through charisma and deception was able to influence public perception and guidelines.

Garner seems to have revealed the core belief of this sect: that ME/CFS is neurasthenia and that it is caused by beliefs and suggestibility, and can also be reversed through them.
 
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The vicious circles of neurasthenia is a list of all the ways the author could think of to blame patients with "neurasthenia" for allegedly maintaining their illness.

I put neurasthenia in quotes because the impression is that it was used as catch-all diagnosis.

e.g. According to the author, cardiac symptoms are caused by suggestion and can lead to death. The cure is to stop the belief that anything is wrong with the heart.
 
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strategist said:
The vicious circles of neurasthenia is a list of all the ways the author could think of to blame patients with "neurasthenia" for allegedly maintaining their illness.
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It is interesting to read to see just to what extent medical literature included complete and utter baseless bullshit 100 years ago. Just as statement from the Royal Colleges sometimes do today.
 
strategist said:
Garner seems to have revealed the core belief of this sect: that ME/CFS is neurasthenia and that it is caused by beliefs and suggestibility, and can also be reversed through them.
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Reminds me of Paul Garner's Newsnight appearance were he assured us that he was ill and cured himself with the power of positive thought ---- if only you could bottle it and sell it ---
 
Surely doing such a thing could be seen as against some law or other?

As current thinking suggests thought exists primarily in brains, therefore in order to stand any chance of bottling his positive thoughts......

The whole thing sounds legally, and practically, dubious to me ;)
 
Lou B Lou said:
'When Professor Garner thinks of long Covid, he has his own preferred historical example. Jamieson Hurry was a Cambridge-educated GP in Reading. In 1915 he wrote a book titled The Vicious Circles of Neurasthenia. It covered the “morbid irritability and fatiguability of the nervous system” — and its link to our own thoughts.....
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Just a reminder that that is the book Michael Sharpe talked about in the "we are the normal people" lecture in The Netherlands in 2019. (And it was bizarre then too.)
 
FMMM1 said:
Reminds me of Paul Garner's Newsnight appearance were he assured us that he was ill and cured himself with the power of positive thought ---- if only you could bottle it and sell it ---
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But if you really believe in the power of positive thought, then admitting to negative thoughts, like symptoms, would be antithetical to your beliefs - thus making you an unreliable source of information about your own condition.
 
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