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O'Dowd-Crawley early intervention study

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic research - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by JohnTheJack, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Exactly. And writing up the circumstances surrounding the non-publication based on the public record and statements also does not depend on their cooperation or permission.
     
  2. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    But we don't have their full write-up of the protocol or methods either. Can we compel them to release whatever draft report they did submit to journals?
     
  3. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    I think that would be considered as private work and not subject to any demands for publication or sharing.
     
  4. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Protocols still aren't pre-registered on record precisely to avoid this scenario?

    Prior edits, sure, but the registered protocol submitted for public funding? If this were serious research anyway...
     
  5. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    If this were "serious" research, they'd only publish the protocol once the main study had finished!
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
    ukxmrv, 2kidswithME, rvallee and 3 others like this.
  6. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is an interesting suggestion. In days gone by I would not have doubted it for a minute. But things are changing and one could argue that nobody owns data if it is in the public domain and is of public interest in terms of medical implications.

    I think this would be a very interesting test case. Clearly the Wilshire et al paper has pushed the boundaries a bit already. I suspect that there are editors around prepared to help push a bit further.

    The study should be published because there are inferences to draw and it involved patients. If the investigators cannot persuade an editor to publish then others should be entitled to try.
     
  7. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    All the pre-trial stuff is in the first post in this thread.
     
  8. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    So we have the full protocol. What would be "private" then? If it's already published? Sounds like everything that's needed besides the data (and someone wanting to do the actual work of deciphering weird cryptic non-specific nonsense and mathemagics).
     
  9. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    This is either a very naive attempt at conspiracy by Bristol - vastly overestimating their ability to pull the wool over your eyes - or an hilariously slapdash cock up.
     
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  10. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    :laugh::thumbup: Fantastic! And apt.
     
    MEMarge and NelliePledge like this.
  11. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Would this be the first time that third parties have published a report on someone else's study that they tried to hide in their bottom drawer?
     
  12. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I can't find the appendix mentioned in the protocol though... It would be useful to know what was in the Information Booklet.
     
  13. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    Just to clarify: UoB would have no idea that I have asked for the data. They would just know someone has. At least I presume that is true as to identify me would be revealing personal information contrary to the DPA and I would expect departments dealing with the FOIA and DPA to conform.

    It does seem a little disingenuous of UoB to quote this decision, though, knowing that it was overturned on appeal.
     
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  14. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    Ah ok. Unlucky for them it actually was you then.
     
  15. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll ask for that when I hear back from them about the data.
     
  16. MEMarge

    MEMarge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Surely they would assume that this small band of militant activists who do nasty things like FOI requests and say mean things to/about psychiatrists would be in close communication though.
     
  17. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Unless they read this thread...
     
  18. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    'While the ICO do not make formal adjudications, except where a formal complaint is lodged, the ICO confirmed they were satisfied that NBT had applied the regulations appropriately and undertaken appropriate due diligence in reaching the decision to disclose the information.'

    And here is the complete dataset, I think.

    1. I would be grateful if someone could confirm that this is everything. (Maybe @Lucibee if you have the time?)

    2. I shall then thank them for it and ask for the Information Booklet. Is there anything else?

    3. I would be interested in writing this up in the hope of publication. Is there anyone who would be interested in working with me? I couldn't do the analysis. Would anyone want to do that bit in particular?
     

    Attached Files:

  19. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There frankly isn't much usable data. This is low effort even by Chalder's standards. It seems they are just playing with spreadsheets and copy-pasting the same work over and over again, doing roughly the same analysis despite there being no value in it.

    Most of the variables are useless, basic psychometric questionnaires and basically the same set as in every other Chalder research. There are only two partially relevant data points: SF-36 and hours missed from work. The latter is hard to interpret as it's compared to what? Are they all people who used to work 40h normal weeks before? Few actual changes at 6 months. It's the only objective measurement and somehow it manages to be mostly subjective and open to interpretation. All but 5 rated as having missed fewer than 10h in the past 7 days, with most actually rating 0. There is an outlier that "missed" 44h of work at baseline and "missed" 56h of work at 6 months. So I guess someone working 56h week having dropped to 12 then 0? Really not sure how to interpret that.

    SF-36 is all over the place, from 5 to 100 (the 5 did not submit at 6 months). There are 3/44 at 100 and 8/44 >=85. It doesn't look to be a valid cohort to begin with, I don't know how anyone can both have a diagnosis of CFS and rate 95+ on SF-36. Because of missing data, somehow average of both columns (baseline and @ 6 months) add up to the exact same number (61.7045). Somehow removing entries that did not report at 6 months actually yields another exact tie (this time at 63.472). This is peak GIGO.

    There is one data point that I can't understand. It's wpai_q1-2_: "number in paid work at baseline/6 months". It's either a 1 or a 2 but there is no explanation what either stands for. Number of what?

    The only value I could see in publishing an analysis would be in just how incredibly bad and useless this kind of research is. This is an embarrassing waste of public funds and everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves, if they were capable of shame anyway.
     
  20. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks. Interesting. Does the dataset (such as it is) look complete to you, as in, they have given us all there is to be had?
     

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