News from Scandinavia

Sigmund Olafsen is a 'civil engineer / senior researcher in acoustics. He is also a relative'. He also have written some good articles about PACE and highlightning it's faults, mainly focusing on that the data never supported the researchers claims, in a very factual style.

April 24 he had another good chronicle in 'Dagens medisin' (=todays medicine):
"ME treatment needs to enter a new track" [norwegian - google english]

TWO IMPORTANT TRACKS. I think we should thank those who have researched cognitive behavioral therapy and graded training as treatment for ME, for their efforts. There was never any result, but it is allowed for a researcher to make a mistake.But we cannot use up limited resources in the future by continuing on unsuccessful projects. And we cannot risk patients' lives and health on alternative treatment. Now we have to end with claims that things work without it being able to be supported by objective, freely available raw data.

It's not really anything new in this piece, as such. But his writing style and authority as a researcher himself, in another field, still making an impact. As can be seen by the responses in the comments field... Nina Andresen, the psychologist and ex-patient that have written several negative pieces about ME-patients is there - as is several others who have a hard time swallowing there is no data to support their claims.
 
Nina Andresen in one of her comments states:

If facts are important for Olafsen, then I can state that the CDC (the health authorities in the US) still recommends both CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) and GET (graded exercise therapy), as this is recommended in the treatment guide for health personnel, the link on their website

Is this correct? I think she is playing the conflating game as per BPS usual and the CDC is referring to activity pacing which she is suggesting is what they are doing (only differently as they are concerned with increasing activity but this is not said).

Here's the relevant page: https://www.cdc.gov/me-cfs/treatment/index.html
 
Nina Andresen in one of her comments states:

If facts are important for Olafsen, then I can state that the CDC (the health authorities in the US) still recommends both CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) and GET (graded exercise therapy), as this is recommended in the treatment guide for health personnel, the link on their website

Is this correct? I think she is playing the conflating game as per BPS usual and the CDC is referring to activity pacing which she is suggesting is what they are doing (only differently as they are concerned with increasing activity but this is not said).

Here's the relevant page: https://www.cdc.gov/me-cfs/treatment/index.html

Seems she's referring to the fact that there's a link on the CDC webdsite to these Canadian guidelines that mention CBT and GET: http://www.topalbertadoctors.org/cpgs/0242896
 
Closest reference to CBT on that page
  • Professional counseling: Talking with a therapist to help find strategies to cope with the illness and its impact on daily life and relationships.

and closest reference to GET
Post-exertional malaise (PEM) is the worsening of symptoms after even minor physical, mental or emotional exertion. The symptoms typically get worse 12 to 48 hours after the activity and can last for days or even weeks.

PEM can be addressed by activity management, also called pacing. The goal of pacing is to learn to balance rest and activity to avoid PEM flare-ups, which can be caused by exertion that patients with ME/CFS cannot tolerate. To do this, patients need to find their individual limits for mental and physical activity. Then they need to plan activity and rest to stay within these limits. Some patients and doctors refer to staying within these limits as staying within the “energy envelope.” The limits may be different for each patient. Keeping activity and symptom diaries may help patients find their personal limits, especially early on in the illness.

For some patients with ME/CFS, even daily chores and activities such as cleaning, preparing a meal, or taking a shower can be difficult and may need to be broken down into shorter, less strenuous pieces. Rehabilitation specialists or exercise physiologists who know ME/CFS may help patients with adjusting to life with ME/CFS. Patients who have learned to listen to their bodies might benefit from carefully increasing exercise to improve fitness and avoid deconditioning. However, exercise is not a cure for ME/CFS.

Patients with ME/CFS need to avoid ‘push-and-crash’ cycles through carefully managing activity. “Push-and-crash” cycles are when someone with ME/CFS is having a good day and tries to push to do more than they would normally attempt (do too much, crash, rest, start to feel a little better, do too much once again). This can then lead to a “crash” (worsening of ME/CFS symptoms). Finding ways to make activities easier may be helpful, like sitting while doing the laundry or showering, taking frequent breaks, and dividing large tasks into smaller steps.

Any activity or exercise plan for people with ME/CFS needs to be carefully designed with input from each patient. While vigorous aerobic exercise can be beneficial for many chronic illnesses, patients with ME/CFS do not tolerate such exercise routines. Standard exercise recommendations for healthy people can be harmful for patients with ME/CFS. However, it is important that patients with ME/CFS undertake activities that they can tolerate, as described above.

So I think that confirms that she is being deliberately inaccurate in what she says.
 
Seems she's referring to the fact that there's a link on the CDC webdsite to these Canadian guidelines that mention CBT and GET: http://www.topalbertadoctors.org/cpgs/0242896

Well that shows me the TOP site but where did you find it at the CDC? Is it obviously accessible or did she go digging? It may be that the CDC need to be made aware.

ETA: She is being disingenuous if it is not actually the CDC
 
Well that shows me the TOP site but where did you find it at the CDC? Is it obviously accessible or did she go digging? It may be that the CDC need to be made aware.

ETA: She is being disingenuous if it is not actually the CDC

That sums up most of her statements really, as with Landmark we've learrned to always check sources and claimes made.

Olafsen and others are doing a very good job in the commentaries :)
 
May Iren Kapelrud 26.04.2019 16.53.00

I want to elaborate and say that the problem of patients being injured is neither in biomedical, mental or psychosocial research. After all, one runs on research to find out if the treatment has enough effect or is possibly harmful. The problem is when research that does not yield enough results is still presented as the solution and better than they actually are. In addition, it is reported that the treatment does not harm the patients, despite the fact that there are several thousand patient stories and user surveys that say something else. This is precisely what happened to both CBT / GET and LP treatment. It is recommended despite the fact that there are not good enough results related to the research! The Rituximab researchers have all the time advised patients not to go to clinics that offer Rituximab treatment despite the very positive responses in both Phases 1 and 2. It's done pretty neatly! The changes on eg US websites are important to take note of!
 
Bizarre article in Denmark about ME/CFS and functional neurological disorders (FND)

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=da&tl=en&u=https://dagensmedicin.dk/lad-os-tale-om-funktionelle-neurologiske-lidelser/

Aquarians were the first animals to develop a nervous system. An external stimulus could be detected and converted into an electrical impulse in the nervous system which resulted in a response. Evolution has for millions of years led to the development of more complex and refined nervous systems. When stimuli are processed in our brain, they lead to different responses depending on situation, mood, expectations, attention, etc. A cyclist who crashes and incurs a collar leg does not feel the same pain if he falls during a stage in the Tour de France as he goes to his aunt's birthday. Nerve signals are thus modulated in a complex way, whose precise mechanisms we do not yet know. This happens completely automatically and cannot be modulated with the power of will alone. Personally, I think it's amazingly fascinating.

If we recognize that this system exists, we must also recognize that errors may occur in the system. When something goes wrong at this level, it can lead to a functional neurological disorder (FND). FND causes neurological symptoms that cannot be explained by a lesion or degeneration, but rather as a malfunction of the brain. There are no blood tests or common scans that can detect the disease. Functional symptoms are quite frequent and constitute 10-20 per cent. of new neurological inquiries. Although FND is quite common, they are not generally known.

FND includes functional movement disorders (eg tremor and paralysis), non-epileptic seizures and until March 14 this year, myalgic encephalopathy (ME) / chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). ME / CFS has just been removed from the category, among other things by a parliamentary vote because ME / CFS patients do not receive the appropriate treatment and are stigmatized.

Many symptoms arise from the same mechanisms without necessarily causing disease. In order to start from my own experiences, I myself have previously had an inexplicable, intermittent dry cough as well as strange sounding, singular hiccups, which fortunately has declined.

Since there are still insufficient laboratory studies to diagnose FND and ME / CFS, the investigation process is often long and the patient can see many doctors and may have tried different treatments without effect.
Patients with FND are highly stigmatized. Since the disease is often referred to as "medically unexplained", people have often been rewarded with the disease being psychiatric. But does it make any sense to separate the brain from the mind? It all happens in the same body. Because the FND crosses an artificial boundary between brain and mind, it does not mean that it is a less genuine or debilitating disease.

I believe that much can be done to improve the investigation and treatment of people with FND. People with FND may not currently receive the same benefits from the state, as people with other diseases, even if they are just as disabled. More scientific attention is needed, the diagnosis has to be made earlier, as this provides a better prognosis and there must be several interdisciplinary treatment options. There must be a political commitment and thus also popular support for this to be possible. Although the treatment is expensive, it will ultimately lead to a positive socio-economic gain. FND should not be a rubbish bin diagnosis, but a disease that is taken seriously and recognized at the same level as other diseases. Greater general understanding will also help fight the taboo that still surrounds the FND.

Whether ME / CFS is an FND or not, there is a great deal of disagreement among researchers, doctors and patients. Removing ME / CFS from the FND category with, among other things, the argument that reducing the stigma will unfortunately lead to further stigmatization of the diseases that are still referred to as FND.

(The theory behind FND is based on the English professor and dr. with. Mark Edwards model.)

Does anyone even know what to make of this? I'm honestly so confused

I thouht FND had nothing to do with 'Funktionelle lidelser' / 'functional disorders' / 'bodily distress syndrome'?

Also the debate in Denmark was about having ME/CFS taken out of the entire functional disorders (funktionelle lidelsser), it had absolutely nothing to do with FND. Why is the author brining it up?

What does ME/CFS have to do with FND? How do they even overlap / have anything to do with each others?
 
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Bizarre article in Denmark about ME/CFS and functional neurological disorders (FND)

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=da&tl=en&u=https://dagensmedicin.dk/lad-os-tale-om-funktionelle-neurologiske-lidelser/

Does anyone even know what to make of this? I'm honestly so confused

I thouht FND had nothing to do with 'Funktionelle lidelser' / 'functional disorders' / 'bodily distress syndrome'?

Also the debate in Denmark was about having ME/CFS taken out of the entire functional disorders, it had absolutely nothing to do with FND. Why is the author brining it up?

What does ME/CFS have to do with FND? How do they even overlap / have anything to do with each others?

It looks like you need to log in, so google translate isn't working for me.
 
Many symptoms arise from the same mechanisms without necessarily causing disease. In order to start from my own experiences, I myself have previously had an inexplicable, intermittent dry cough as well as strange sounding, singular hiccups, which fortunately has declined.

If you can't explain it, that means you can't explain it. It doesn't mean that you have gained evidence that these symptoms have a particular cause.
 
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Bizarre article in Denmark about ME/CFS and functional neurological disorders (FND)

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=da&tl=en&u=https://dagensmedicin.dk/lad-os-tale-om-funktionelle-neurologiske-lidelser/



Does anyone even know what to make of this? I'm honestly so confused

I thouht FND had nothing to do with 'Funktionelle lidelser' / 'functional disorders' / 'bodily distress syndrome'?

Also the debate in Denmark was about having ME/CFS taken out of the entire functional disorders (funktionelle lidelsser), it had absolutely nothing to do with FND. Why is the author brining it up?

What does ME/CFS have to do with FND? How do they even overlap / have anything to do with each others?
It's a logical fallacy that can be used to argue that astrology is real.

Stars and planets exist

Stars and planets have an influence on us (gravitational and electromagnetic)

Their influence coincides with events on Earth

Those events can be argued to be influenced by stars and planets

Ergo astrology is real

The real problem is that institutions are enabling this nonsense. It's normal for fringe ideas to be proposed. What's not normal is that they are propped up despite making no sense whatsoever.
 
Professor Montoya has been visiting Store Sköndal outside Stockholm, Sweden. Stora Sköndal has been running an outpatient clinic for ME patients for several years. They have a biomedical approach, does assessment, treatment (which I believe is mainly about managing symptoms) as well as research.
 
For almost 30 years, Norway had two ME patient organisations. One of them, MENIN, decided in 2017 to close down and to donate their profit to research into ME.

This month they gave a huge donation on 2,1 million NOK (241682 USD, 216756 EUR, 187147 GBP) to the researchers Olav Mella, Øystein Fluge and their team at Haukeland university Hospital

 
For almost 30 years, Norway had two ME patient organisations. One of them, MENIN, decided in 2017 to close down and to donate their profit to research into ME.

This month they gave a huge donation on 2,1 million NOK (241682 USD, 216756 EUR, 187147 GBP) to the researchers Olav Mella, Øystein Fluge and their team at Haukeland university Hospital


I wouldn't mind if a certain UK charity did the same.:speechless:
 
Forskning.no a Norwegian news site about research had an article the other day about the HRA report supposedly clearing the PACE trial from all criticism (discussed in the general PACE thread here) . Today the university OsloMet has an article about MUS (medically unexplained symptoms) turning into Bodily Distress Syndrome, and that Chronic Fatigue Syndrome belongs under this umbrella term.

At least they're honest about what they think when they say the main criteria for Bodily Distress Disorder is that the doctor think the patient is too focused on their symptoms.

The google translation is as usual not very good, but feel free to ask if you want a translation done by a human of some words/sections. "Root box" for instance is "roteskuff" - a drawer for bits and pieces you don't know where else to put. I've translated it as a "clutter drawer". The scientist seems to think putting patients in such a drawer is a huge improvement from putting them in a garbage bin...

MUPS is not in itself a diagnosis, but a collective term. In the literature, MUPS has been referred to as a garbage bin in the diagnostic system. Rasmussen also suggests that this category can be understood as a clutter drawer.

- In the garbage bin you put something you want to get rid of. Though too many patients unfortunately often feel treated as garbage, I mean the clutter drawer is more precise. In a clutter drawer you put something you do not want to throw, at least not at first, but which you have no other places to put.

The medical researchers are working actively to get order in the clutter drawer, but so far have not succeeded, says Rasmussen.

...
The new version of the hospital's diagnostic manual contains a new diagnosis that is intended to embrace several of the patients in the drawer. The diagnosis bears the name Bodily Distress Disorder. It is intended to replace a number of diagnoses for disorders that cause bodily symptoms that can vary from mild to significant, without the presence of a bodily disease, so-called somatoform disorders.

- It is too early to say anything about how the new diagnosis will work. One of the main criteria is that the doctor thinks the patient is too concerned about their symptoms. It is possible to envision that such a diagnosis will not be particularly popular among patients, Erik Børve Rasmussen concludes.

Forskning.no: Lider du av MUPS?
google translation: Do you suffer from MUS?
 
Forskning.no a Norwegian news site about research had an article the other day about the HRA report supposedly clearing the PACE trial from all criticism (discussed in the general PACE thread here) . Today the university OsloMet has an article about MUS (medically unexplained symptoms) turning into Bodily Distress Syndrome, and that Chronic Fatigue Syndrome belongs under this umbrella term.

At least they're honest about what they think when they say the main criteria for Bodily Distress Disorder is that the doctor think the patient is too focused on their symptoms.

The google translation is as usual not very good, but feel free to ask if you want a translation done by a human of some words/sections. "Root box" for instance is "roteskuff" - a drawer for bits and pieces you don't know where else to put. I've translated it as a "clutter drawer". The scientist seems to think putting patients in such a drawer is a huge improvement from putting them in a garbage bin...

MUPS is not in itself a diagnosis, but a collective term. In the literature, MUPS has been referred to as a garbage bin in the diagnostic system. Rasmussen also suggests that this category can be understood as a clutter drawer.

- In the garbage bin you put something you want to get rid of. Though too many patients unfortunately often feel treated as garbage, I mean the clutter drawer is more precise. In a clutter drawer you put something you do not want to throw, at least not at first, but which you have no other places to put.

The medical researchers are working actively to get order in the clutter drawer, but so far have not succeeded, says Rasmussen.

...
The new version of the hospital's diagnostic manual contains a new diagnosis that is intended to embrace several of the patients in the drawer. The diagnosis bears the name Bodily Distress Disorder. It is intended to replace a number of diagnoses for disorders that cause bodily symptoms that can vary from mild to significant, without the presence of a bodily disease, so-called somatoform disorders.

- It is too early to say anything about how the new diagnosis will work. One of the main criteria is that the doctor thinks the patient is too concerned about their symptoms. It is possible to envision that such a diagnosis will not be particularly popular among patients, Erik Børve Rasmussen concludes.

Forskning.no: Lider du av MUPS?
google translation: Do you suffer from MUS?
This asshole is aware they are talking about real human lives? Right? I believe asshole is the proper technical term here. Medicine needs such massive reform. There is no accountability in the system, no due process, not even the mere demand of common sense and avoiding harm. Patients are disposed of as mere complaints, dehumanized and turned into mere product.

Rasmussen calls us trash. Well, right back at ya, you are trash, unfit for the responsibilities of this profession.

It is too early to say anything about how the new diagnosis will work
It is not. It is very much late in this regard. It's stupid and sadistic and the people promoting this nonsense are reckless and irresponsible.
 
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