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New German guideline for ME published today

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Joh, Feb 1, 2018.

  1. Joh

    Joh Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The new German "guideline tiredness" was published today.

    ME doesn't get its own guideline in Germany, only a chapter in the "guideline tiredness". It's basically the German NICE guideline for ME. It was last updated in 2011.

    http://www.degam.de/files/Inhalte/Leitlinien-Inhalte/Dokumente/DEGAM-S3-Leitlinien/053-002 Leitlinie Muedigkeit/Aktuelle Fassung 2018/053-002l_Muedigkeit_neu_180121.pdf

    The chapter on ME or "chronic tiredness syndrome" as G93.3 is officially named in Germany starts at page 40.

    At first sight it looks as horrific as anticipated.
     
  2. Joh

    Joh Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is the accompanying report about the process of the update ("Methodenreport"):

    http://www.degam.de/files/Inhalte/Leitlinien-Inhalte/Dokumente/DEGAM-S3-Leitlinien/053-002 Leitlinie Muedigkeit/Methodenreport/053-002_Methodenreport_30.01.18.pdf

    The three German ME organizations were involved (but rather pro forma, as no recommendation was included): Fatigatio, Lost Voices Stiftung and Deutsche Gesellschaft für ME/CFS (German Association for ME/CFS).

    I like the German Association and Lost Voices Stiftung. I'm also a member of the Fatigatio but it's kind of the German Action for ME (or worse because it's much, much more unprofessional) but after I read just one statement of the Fatigatio in the report (bedridden patients should be activated and other gems) I'll finally terminate my membership.

    The statements from the German Association can be read from page 73-90.

    ETA: I think Prof. Scheibenbogen was also involved in the process but equally not heard.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  3. Joh

    Joh Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  4. Joh

    Joh Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  5. Joh

    Joh Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Just learnt that the DEGAM didn't even inform the involved parties that the guideline is published. Totally unprofessional. The German Association doesn't even has an answer to their last intervention (official complaint) at AWMF level yet. I guess they hoped to surprise the organizations.
     
  6. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It is horrendous, unbearable! :mad: oh, I am so angry, I would like to....:emoji_right_facing_fist:
     
  7. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Maybe someday they'll be surprised!
     
  8. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I won't make a statement regarding fatigatio; last time someone critisized them, they threatened to sew them. No comment on that.

    Shame! I'm disgusted. And what's that last part about not putting them in one pot with others - WTF?! Why, oh why does this organisation have members?

    Oh sorry. It's just so unbelievable :arghh:
     
  9. Joh

    Joh Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  10. Rick Sanchez

    Rick Sanchez Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Love the passive aggressive comment about how the coping strategy employed by ME/CFS organisations did worse than the treatment groups.

    Seriously though, what sort of 'Spasti' wrote this garbage? PACE led to moderate improvements? In which universe?


    This is the most impressive thing about German ME/CFS situation. Even the moronic Danish and Dutch psychiatrists seem to have figured out that the deconditioning theory is so hopelessly clowny, that it only provides ammunition for their opponents. Maybe in a few years they will learn that your garbage psych theory has to be based on the fact that something very complicated is going on in the patients brain to make it at least sound somewhat plausible for politicians and lay people.

    Seriously though. That was a terrible read.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  11. lycaena

    lycaena Established Member

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    Where ist the puke-smiley? I am especially appalled at the statement of the association fatigatio :grumpy: I quitted my membership a few years ago.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  12. Rick Sanchez

    Rick Sanchez Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Me inbetween every paragraph

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Joh

    Joh Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Guideline:

    1. paragraph

    CFS is a rare result of a consultation (this is the first sentence!).

    A population sample from Chicago showed CFS (as well as other forms of tiredness) was associated with female gender, belonging to a minority, low level of education and low professional status.

    Prior to the development of CFS, patients also made a lot of GP visits with variable complaints over many years.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  14. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This document is even worse than the worst rubbish coming out of the UK.
     
  15. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes. :( If there was an international ranking, Germany would take the last position.
     
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  16. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The authors take the position that CFS doesn't really exist in Germany because it's not being diagnosed, and then go on engaging in extreme stigmatization of patients. No wonder it's not diagnosed with these attitudes!
     
  17. Joh

    Joh Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Now they get philosophical.

    Guideline:
    It's important to mention that with a lot of somatic and psychic illnesses it's very difficult to draw a line between "ill" and "non-ill".

    Here it becomes clear that medical diagnoses are ultimately agreements depending on time and location and are determined by social, cultural and bio-medical circumstances and knowledge.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  18. Joh

    Joh Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I haven't read it all yet but I think they manage to not use the words illness or disease once.

    As in the last guideline they advocate for not informing the public and not raising awareness that this "entity" exists:

    "It is questionable, however, whether it makes sense to further deepen the awareness of this entity in the general and specialist public, given the unexplained aetiopathology and the lack of specific treatment options for CFS."
     
  19. Joh

    Joh Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    They now muse about the "vicious circle of deconditioning (when we're deconditioned and move it's hard and this is why we think we're ill)

    Sorry, my head is spinning, so here's an automatic translation:

    "It has been postulated that in some people, for example, a
    viral infection and the associated symptoms (lack of performance, muscle pain
    etc.) activate certain cognitive and behavioural changes. In this way, the
    concept of having a physical disorder that is characterized by movement and strain
    only aggravated, prolonged bed rest and avoidance of activity. The soon-to-be
    adjusting physiological secondary changes due to lack of activity (deconditioning)
    confirm these views, which are actually unfounded: Movement leads to
    now definitely to complaints, which can be improved by rest in the short term! It's a vicious circle
    which in turn leads to evasion, avoidance, social retreat and social exclusion,
    depressive mood. These are hypothetical considerations; however, they do make
    clearly shows that diagnostic labelling in turn affects the behavior,
    be able to have a sense of well-being and ultimately biological processes."
     
  20. Joh

    Joh Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    "this rare and controversial syndrome"
     

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