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Nature: A reboot for chronic fatigue syndrome research

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS news' started by Cheshire, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I cannot see any misrepresentation in the article -just an account of what has happened. David Tuller did write a blog. The CDC has changed its guidelines and NICE are reviewing. Letters have been written to journals. The article expresses no opinion on the quality of PACE. Nothing is misrepresented. Is it that Dr Sharpe does not like real history? Is he disappointed that there has been no news blackout on peer debate?
     
    inox, ballard, MeSci and 26 others like this.
  2. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    [my bold]

    Again reaffirming he believes it's just down to hard work and determination for PwME.
     
    ballard, Louie41, Joh and 12 others like this.
  3. Valentijn

    Valentijn Guest

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    Based on his behavior during the PACE debacle, I would've thought he'd be one of the first to appreciate any actual misrepresentations :p But perhaps he's simply confused when it comes to differentiating between reality and spin.
     
  4. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    And of course as usual, no substance, just candy floss.
     
    ballard, Louie41, Inara and 5 others like this.
  5. Valentijn

    Valentijn Guest

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  6. Solstice

    Solstice Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Oh how the tides are turning. People that have wronged us so much are now on the defensive. Great sight to behold. Keep up the pressure!
     
    Indigophoton, ballard, MeSci and 11 others like this.
  7. Skycloud

    Skycloud Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm not on twitter; Has someone has pulled the drawbridge up?
     
    Louie41 likes this.
  8. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    What would be the ethical (and maybe other) considerations of administering a 'placebo' to controls that exhibits similar symptomatic side effects? I appreciate that cancer treatments can have risks attached, and it would be wrong to expose controls to those risks. But is it possible to mask who is getting what if all trial participants agreed to accept they may be administered placebos that make them feel ill?
     
    Indigophoton, Louie41, Inara and 2 others like this.
  9. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    A very interesting thought. I am not sure that it would ever be taken on. You would need something that gives people the same sort of nausea as cyclo. Referees would question whether maybe the patients could tell the difference.

    Probably the more plausible option is to do a dose response study. It is unlikely that side effects would track exactly with efficacy. But it would be far from simple.
     
    Indigophoton, MeSci, Louie41 and 7 others like this.
  10. Louie41

    Louie41 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm not aware that this has been established. I've had several courses of IVIG with no impact whatsoever on my ME.
     
  11. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

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    (Very poor) Response:
    Don't reject evidence from CFS therapies
    Michael Sharpe, Trudie Chalder & Jon Stone
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-01285-x

    Edit: this response now has its own thread: https://www.s4me.info/threads/nature-publishes-response-from-sharpe-et-al.2253/

     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
    guest001, ladycatlover, Inara and 7 others like this.
  12. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    So with a "healthy" dose of denial they think that making patients worse is a good thing because it might help them :emoji_face_palm:
     
  13. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Well....you could either retire or go off and work in some entirely unrelated fields.
     
  14. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Possibly ones full of cabbages, or in siberia.
     
  15. Adrian

    Adrian Administrator Staff Member

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    Given the biggest trial in the GET Cochrane meta analysis is PACE there comment about other evidence is misleading. Cochrane rated PACE as high quality evidence and included it in a meta analysis with small trials (that make similar methodological mistakes) so Cochrane cannot be considered as 'further scientific evidence' as it is not independent.
     
  16. Valentijn

    Valentijn Guest

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    The Cochrane mental health group which has laid claim to ME/CFS reviews is one which was started by Simon Wessely, probably for that express purpose. It was founded as a conflict of interest, and I very much doubt that it has since cleansed itself of that. They should not be reviewing ME/CFS, full stop.
     
    guest001, inox, Stuart and 12 others like this.
  17. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It was suggested that I write a response to the PACE authors' response. But their response is so trivial and peevish I see no point. They might note that CDC did not change its recommendation because the patients' illness was 'dismissed' by behavioural therapy but because the evidence is either unusable or actually points to no benefit. Cochrane asked me to look at the GET studies and I would regard them as equally unhelpful. Time to move on.
     
  18. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    To you its these things but to professionals who know little about ME/CFS except what they see published it could easily mean more.
     
  19. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

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    They now resort to citing small studies to back the PACE trial, which doesn't seem to be able to stand alone by itself.
     
    inox, Chezboo, ladycatlover and 9 others like this.
  20. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I doubt it. Sharpe and Chalder are just saying 'Not fair you meanies. I am going to tell my daddy on you!' without raising a hint of a rational argument.
     

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