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Menon - Mitochondrial Modifying Nutrients in Treating Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: A 16-week Open-Label Pilot Study

Discussion in 'ME/CFS research' started by Adrian, Nov 24, 2017.

  1. Adrian

    Adrian Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    UK
    The way stats testing works is that you try to reject the null hypothesis (that two groups are the same) and in doing do try to show a difference between the groups. In doing this the sample size makes a difference. This is why in doing a trial a power calculation is normally done to workout the chance given an effect that the null hypothesis will be rejected. It uses the sample size, predicted effect size and the significance test level (including multitest corrections). This is used to give a minimum estimated sample size for a trial to lead to significance given the predicted effect size. Its normally required for ethical approval.

    So having more patients could lead to a significant result. However, they will have done a power calculation so it would suggest that the effect is smaller than predicted (if any).

    The intuition would be something like if you draw more samples from a population and see an effect you get more certainty than if you draw a smaller number. But to me significance testing is not intuitive.
     
  2. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    52,218
    Location:
    UK
    Useful explanation! Do you want to join the Stats team, @Adrian? ! @Graham and I, with some others are starting to write short explanations of some aspects of the stats that appears in scientific papers to put in the library.
     
    Inara, Skycloud, Graham and 3 others like this.
  3. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    3,309
    Technically i agree, and i do know a thing or two about statistics (i did in a previous life anyways), and suffice it to say 87 patients won't give you a 95% confidence interval :laugh:
    What i was getting at is this seems to be a ploy to make a quick buck by stacking numbers to make it so and a bad idea won't become good if multiplied, even if they can bend bigger numbers to make it look good
     
    Trish and Inara like this.
  4. Adrian

    Adrian Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    6,486
    Location:
    UK
    I agree and if you need high numbers in a trial chances are the effect is small.
     
    Trish likes this.
  5. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    3,309
    Here is an example of using statistics to "prove" something, by playing with numbers one can prove opposites are correct
    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/p-hacking/
     
    Inara likes this.
  6. Holinger

    Holinger Established Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    Data in my case was stopped at 4 months instead of 5 because of a batch of ingredients being lightly different would legally causes trouble for the trial. The cfq scores where calculated at 4 months. Others had completed the 5 months but with a corrupted formulation for the 5th month. Hope this helps.
     
  7. Holinger

    Holinger Established Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    Hi not a problem. I do not know if it is funded or not yet but with blinding and actometres they will need government funding.
     

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