Havana Syndrome: U.S. and Canadian diplomats targeted with possible weapon causing brain injury and neurological symptoms

leokitten said:
But in general if ME is the result of damage to brain stem areas for many of us, will there ever be a cure or treatment? They say for Havana there is none and will likely never be one.
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I personally suspect in ME we are seeing two factors, firstly something is happening to brain function in acute phases or during PEM due to something like disruption to blood supply, inflammation, micro clots, breaches to the blood brain barrier that is reversible. Most symptoms of ME fit with diffuse impairment of brain function rather than focal brain damage. Certainly earlier in my ME I experienced periods of 100% recovery of brain function. With this if a treatment is developed it could be potentially curative.

However, secondly I suspect long term disruption to normal brain function could result in permanent neurological damage, so I am less optimistic that for us long term suffers a completely curative treatment is an option. Any spontaneous improvement I might experience now thirty years in, is no where near my premorbid functioning. However I would not be unhappy if there was a treatment that could block the effects of PEM on brain function and hopefully prevent future deterioration.
 
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The interview with the CIA doctor is interesting. He's got "establishment credentials" so story won't be immediately dismissed. No prior history it seems, and is himself a physician. The hypothesis is a directed energy weapon, states there is no adjacent building from which to mount an attack (I'm accepting that as a member of the CIA he has at least some training in surveillance evasion etc) and wonders whether someone was in a small service room adjacent to his hotel room and irradiated him overnight. That would be technically feasible with a sleeping target, using infra-red. He seems to say these energy weapons exist (if true they should be immediately banned of course).

But the question is "why would an enemy agency want to attack him immediately on arrival?". Be set up ready to go to incapacitate him day 1 - wouldn't that give the game away? I still think it's more likely this will turn out to be an own goal somehow - perhaps relating to an over-accelerated vaccination schedule for example.
 
SNT Gatchaman said:
But the question is "why would an enemy agency want to attack him immediately on arrival?". Be set up ready to go to incapacitate him day 1 - wouldn't that give the game away?
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He was sent to Cuba to investigate Havana Syndrome cases. So to me there was a motive to incapacitate him right away. I don’t think they cared if it strongly suggested a malicious actor, they knew, and still know, the US govt has no real clue what’s going on.
 
https://afsa.org/havana-syndrome-there-was-moscow-signal
An interesting read from an ex-Moscow embassy American diplomat, talking about the use of microwaves by Russians against the American embassy during the Cold War.

SNT Gatchaman said:
But the question is "why would an enemy agency want to attack him immediately on arrival?". Be set up ready to go to incapacitate him day 1 - wouldn't that give the game away?
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I don't know, but what if giving the game away, in a deniable fashion was the point? Some speculation here.
 
Thanks @Hutan, fascinating history.

I guess if it were a rainy London, not Havana, they might have just discretely jabbed him with an umbrella. The answer if it ever comes will be fascinating and possibly horrifying. Thinking more, the onset does sound too abrupt and coincidental to arrival time for a delayed immunological process affecting the brain. So maybe it's just a crude and overpowered bugging device and the neurological injury is an unintended consequence.
 
Merged thread

New Studies Find No Evidence of Brain Injury in Havana Syndrome Cases (NYT)

"New studies by the National Institutes of Health failed to find evidence of brain injury in scans or blood markers of the diplomats and spies who suffered symptoms of Havana syndrome, bolstering the conclusions of U.S. intelligence agencies about the strange health incidents.

Spy agencies have concluded that the debilitating symptoms associated with Havana syndrome, including dizziness and migraines, are not the work of a hostile foreign power. They have not identified a weapon or device that caused the injuries, and intelligence analysts now believe the symptoms are most likely explained by environmental factors, existing medical conditions or stress.

The lead scientist on one of the two new studies said that while the study was not designed to find a cause, the findings were consistent with those determinations.

The authors said the studies are at odds with findings from researchers at the University of Pennsylvania, who found differences in brain scans of people with Havana syndrome symptoms and a control group."

NYT Article
 
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Interesting tidbits from the article:

"The N.I.H. scientists said they did not diagnose the patients with traumatic brain injuries or concussions. The diagnoses they offered instead, all so-called “functional neurologic disorders,” are often caused by stress."

"The N.I.H. diagnosis angered several people with Havana syndrome symptoms who said it was insulting and misguided because it was tantamount to calling their symptoms psychosomatic or the result of mass hysteria."

"Mark Zaid, a lawyer for several people with Havana syndrome symptoms, said many current and former officials treated at N.I.H. were upset that they were not briefed on the study before it came out. Mr. Zaid said some patients were told that they had to participate in the study to receive treatment from the government for their symptoms. Mr. Zaid said that had raised ethical questions about the patients’ consent."

"“The concern is that intelligence community is going to weaponize this study to show that the absence of evidence is evidence,” Mr. Zaid said. “And it is not.”"

[Edited to add another tidbit at the end]
 
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"The N.I.H. diagnosis angered several people with Havana syndrome symptoms who said it was insulting and misguided because it was tantamount to calling their symptoms psychosomatic or the result of mass hysteria."

Not tantamount to. That is exactly what they are saying.

Natalie Shure
4-year study finds that Havana Syndrome symptoms are functional, and likely driven by psychosocial factors. WHODA THUNK

Natalie Shure jumps on anything to bolster her shabby partisan record on these kind of matters. WHODA THUNK
 
Sean said:
"The N.I.H. diagnosis angered several people with Havana syndrome symptoms who said it was insulting and misguided because it was tantamount to calling their symptoms psychosomatic or the result of mass hysteria."

Not tantamount to. That is exactly what they are saying.

Natalie Shure
4-year study finds that Havana Syndrome symptoms are functional, and likely driven by psychosocial factors. WHODA THUNK

Natalie Shure jumps on anything to bolster her shabby partisan record on these kind of matters. WHODA THUNK
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yep. This was a good posting and I think it’s very insightful given other news about NIH (and wondering whether that is good or could be used for bad etc)
 
Clinical, Biomarker, and Research Tests Among US Government Personnel and Their Family Members Involved in Anomalous Health Incidents
Leighton Chan; Mark Hallett; Chris K. Zalewski; Carmen C. Brewer; Cris Zampieri; Michael Hoa; Sara M. Lippa; Edmond Fitzgibbon; Louis M. French; Anita D. Moses; André J. van der Merwe; Carlo Pierpaoli; L. Christine Turtzo; Simge Yonter; Pashtun Shahim; NIH AHI Intramural Research Program Team; Brian Moore; Lauren Stamps; Spencer Flynn; Julia Fontana; Swathi Tata; Jessica Lo; Mirella A. Fernandez; Annie-Lori Joseph; Jesse Matsubara; Julie Goldberg; Thuy-Tien D. Nguyen; Noa Sasson; Justine Lely; Bryan Smith; Kelly A. King; Jennifer Chisholm; Julie Christensen; M. Teresa Magone; Chantal Cousineau-Krieger; Rakibul Hafiz; Amritha Nayak; Okan Irfanoglu; Sanaz Attaripour; Chen Lai; Wendy B. Smith

IMPORTANCE
Since 2015, US government and related personnel have reported dizziness, pain, visual problems, and cognitive dysfunction after experiencing intrusive sounds and head pressure. The US government has labeled these anomalous health incidents (AHIs).

OBJECTIVES
To assess whether participants with AHIs differ significantly from US government control participants with respect to clinical, research, and biomarker assessments.

DESIGN, SETTING AND PARTICIPANTS
Exploratory study conducted between June 2018 and July 2022 at the National Institutes of Health Clinical Center, involving 86 US government staff and family members with AHIs from Cuba, Austria, China, and other locations as well as 30 US government control participants.

EXPOSURES
AHIs.

MAIN OUTCOMES AND MEASURES
Participants were assessed with extensive clinical, auditory, vestibular, balance, visual, neuropsychological, and blood biomarkers (glial fibrillary acidic protein and neurofilament light) testing. The patients were analyzed based on the risk characteristics of the AHI identifying concerning cases as well as geographic location.

RESULTS
Eighty-six participants with AHIs (42 women and 44 men; mean [SD] age, 42.1 [9.1] years) and 30 vocationally matched government control participants (11 women and 19 men; mean [SD] age, 43.8 [10.1] years) were included in the analyses. Participants with AHIs were evaluated a median of 76 days (IQR, 30-537) from the most recent incident. In general, there were no significant differences between participants with AHIs and control participants in most tests of auditory, vestibular, cognitive, or visual function as well as levels of the blood biomarkers. Participants with AHIs had significantly increased fatigue, depression, posttraumatic stress, imbalance, and neurobehavioral symptoms compared with the control participants. There were no differences in these findings based on the risk characteristics of the incident or geographic location of the AHIs. Twenty-four patients (28%) with AHI presented with functional neurological disorders.

CONCLUSIONS AND RELEVANCE
In this exploratory study, there were no significant differences between individuals reporting AHIs and matched control participants with respect to most clinical, research, and biomarker measures, except for objective and self-reported measures of imbalance and symptoms of fatigue, posttraumatic stress, and depression. This study did not replicate the findings of previous studies, although differences in the populations included and the timing of assessments limit direct comparisons.


Link | PDF (JAMA) [Open Access]
 
On the other hand, if a directed energy “attack” is not involved in the AHI cases or involved in just a few, then it is likely that the functional disorders identified may explain some of the study findings. The individuals in this cohort live in a high stress environment and communicate frequently, which would seem an ideal circumstance for the spread of functional disorders. Some of the findings support this notion. Forty-one percent of the participants in the AHI cohort met the criteria for functional neurological disorder and/or had significant somatic symptoms. These cases occurred in both AHI groups and in patients from nearly every geographic location.
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So they believe FND is in the spectrum of mass hysteria.
 
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"The Rough Corner" is a podcast by Dan Schreiber. In a recent episode he interviews Dan Vergano, Senior Opinion Editor at Scientific American who has followed the story about the Havana syndrome for years.

He presents this theory of functional disorder from the Jama paper as plausible, describing it as software problem but "very real". Says this is the same Freud was talking about and it's due to stress.

Towards the end of the interview (about 31 minutes in), he reflects on this kind of topic being easy to get research funds for. It is a display of power, as the government pays for diplomats' care. Then he says that's not the case for people with Long Covid or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome as they are not powerfully placed people.

Seems he was completely unaware that the same one-size-fits-all theory (FND) is also used on LC and CFS.

https://www.podplay.com/podcasts/we...w-nessie-footage-and-a-growling-eel-290133002
 
JAMA Editorial — Neurological Illness and National Security: Lessons to Be Learned

In this issue of JAMA, Chan et al1 and Pierpaoli et al2 at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) report on an extensive clinical assessment of 86 participants with AHIs and 30 control participants, and on magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) findings of 81 of these participants with AHIs and 48 control participants, respectively. Overall, the authors found few significant differences between participants with AHIs and control participants, and no consistent evidence of brain injury. These findings differ from previous clinical and imaging studies of smaller numbers of cases from Havana and China that found evidence of vestibular, oculomotor, and pupillary abnormalities3,4 and a variety of MRI findings.5
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With few differences between cases and controls in the 2 current studies, one might suspect that nothing or nothing serious happened with these cases. This would be ill-advised.
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the effort to explain AHIs, as with other enigmatic and highly publicized clinical syndromes such as Gulf War syndrome, has been hampered by our collective difficulty in dealing with uncertainty, complexity, the need for transdisciplinary approaches, insufficient information or misinformation, and a topic that is politically charged and divisive, in part because of the implications of different explanatory hypotheses, especially the possible involvement of malefactors. A lack of information about the effects of radiofrequency energy was interpreted as evidence of implausability, some cases were ignored or inadequately treated, and the response became part of the problem.
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The unfortunate tendency to dismiss disorders such as chronic fatigue syndrome and long COVID as of psychological origin illustrate this difficulty. Going forward, we must address the underlying institutional failures and vulnerabilities that contributed to these outcomes. For example, there should be surveillance systems designed to rapidly detect early cases and clusters of concern across multiple US government agencies and departments based on standardized data collection and integration, using some of the methods described above.
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Objective, independent expert panels should review emerging data and patterns and pose competing, testable hypotheses that prompt use and development of relevant clinical diagnostics and environmental sensors. Effective real-time forensic investigations in demanding environments can be exceedingly difficult and may benefit from an all-of government approach. Prejudice and poorly supported assumptions must be set aside. Clear and timely public communication is essential. The delivery of appropriate nonjudgmental care must be initiated without delay. The experience with AHIs provides valuable lessons for clinicians, the scientific and national security communities, and national and international policymakers. We ignore them at our own, collective peril.
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Conflict of Interest Disclosures: Dr Relman served as chair of the National Academy of Sciences committee that undertook the 2019-2020 study of anomalous health incidents (AHIs) and as a co-chair of the Intelligence Community Experts Panel on AHIs whose report was released in 2022.
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There are similar issues with repetitive brain injuries. I recently saw a story about a former military, I think he was special forces, who suffered what he thinks are consequences from blasts suffered in service. This is pretty close to the story of "shell shock" as well. Militaries are very reluctant to recognize it because it means a lot more money towards disability and medical support. GWI shows how far they are still willing to take denial.

There is a similar issue in some pro sports, like hockey and American football. A few years ago there was a study showing how hockey players who played a more physical game, and especially those who did a lot of fighting, died earlier, and the more physical their game was, the more they fought or had head injuries, the younger they died. But this kind of damage is barely visible on scans, it can only seen on autopsies and even then, it's not obvious enough.

Recently such a player died, and his family is blaming it on TBIs, along with many former players. The NHL was even asked whether it changed their stances and they said that they don't think the science is really settled. There are huge pressures to not recognize those illnesses, our societies simply don't like taking care of disabled people and commonly encourages everyone to dismiss and gaslight it. This pressure is both a wider social issue, with health and research funding, as well as disability programs, but there are often cases where private interests manage to stifle everything, like pro sports leagues and insurance companies.

It's a much broader phenomenon, and it's more cultural than institutional, in my opinion. Even if institutional leaders wanted to change things, they would face huge backlash from the medical community. This is how the momentum in the 80's to recognize ME was lost. Institutions played a huge role, but there was a large cultural aspect to it, there was a hunger to prefer psychosomatic explanations. We're seeing it all over again with Long Covid. It's a hunger without limit, it cannot be appeased and it always grows .

And yet medicine has easy lessons to take from this from some of their own specialties, like toxicology. Often if the cause of an illness is exposure to some toxins or chemicals, it's not possible to do anything unless they can figure out what it was. The number of possible causes is too large, and we don't have the technology to simply "scan" for these things. The experts involved have to know or they are inept to do anything, and chronic illness is just a wider case of this problem. The profession needs to be able to provide competent care even when they don't understand the cause and mechanism. That space has been entirely left to psychosomatic ideology and bigotry, and it's been predictably disastrous for it.
 
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