1. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 3rd August 2020 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

Factors affecting quality of life in children and adolescents with hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos syndrome/hypermobility spectrum disorders,2019,Mu et al

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia and Connective Tissue Disorders' started by Andy, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. Andy

    Andy Committee Member & Outreach

    Messages:
    10,103
    Likes Received:
    73,534
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    Paywalled at https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ajmg.a.61055
     
    Inara, MSEsperanza, MEMarge and 2 others like this.
  2. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    7,159
    Likes Received:
    73,045
    I strongly suspect that the patients studied are in no way representative of hypermobility in children (forget the EDS). They will be children with fatigue and pain problems who have been referred to a local physio who has it in their head that pain and fatigue go with 'EDS' and so get referred on to a genetics clinic. Children with hypermobility and no pain or fatigue do not go to such clinics.

    So this is a complete waste of time. Moreover:

    Current management guidelines recommend early intervention to prevent disability from deconditioning; these results may help identify target interventions in this vulnerable population.

    Is all too familiar.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
  3. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,310
    Likes Received:
    33,494
    Location:
    Canada
    Where are the studies showing normal deconditioning from a sedentary lifestyle leads to this much measurable disability? To properly test this level of deconditioning participants in studies are made to remain bedbound under constant surveillance for months at a time (lots of it comes from NASA because it compares well with what weightlessness does to the human body). Less than a quarter of us are bedbound so this whole obsession is just bizarre.

    None of the psychosocial studies ever include any deconditioned controls for comparison. Likely because it's not actually possible to find any population that would actually fit those requirements and even a modest exercise training program would have any such controls soar immediately past any chronically ill population. That exercise doesn't help most is precisely the biggest tell of all that there is something else going on, it's completely abnormal, any healthy person should and does benefit from exercise.

    Why does this deconditioning assumption have such a long shelf life when its impact is so grossly exaggerated? In the case of ME it literally requires people to become deconditioned to the point of being bedbound within a matter of days. That's not how any of this works. I hate suspension of disbelief.
     
  4. Cinders66

    Cinders66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,186
    Likes Received:
    7,100
    Even the
    even the astronaut study by nasa, 3 months in bed did not cause ME symptoms or any major symptoms. This directly contradicts Information such as that in the GP document trying to suggest that muscle pain is caused in healthy people if they rest a lot and drawing equivalents to ME pain. Firstly, as you say the symptoms usually preceed the deconditiong, secondLy many with ME are not deconditioned and thirdly as I said even significant stays in bed do not cause the distressing symptoms of severe MEor lasting disability, causing mainly just autonomic issues with being upright. I don’t understand how For years we have been side lined by a bullshit model and seemingly applying to others too
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  5. Dr Carrot

    Dr Carrot Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    2,554
    MEMarge, Chezboo, Inara and 4 others like this.
  6. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,310
    Likes Received:
    33,494
    Location:
    Canada
    So how does it make sense to pursue this idiotic model where bedbound patients are asked to gradually work their way up from brushing their teeth over several months when the normal expected course of an otherwise healthy deconditioned person is "95% back to normal after a few days". There's something deeply broken here.

    Why is this complete nonsense going unchallenged for decades? Are we truly deserving of so much contempt that people need to twist reality just to stick it to us? It's basically a giant exercise in mixing cause and effect with absolute confidence and the superficial appearance of science. "You're bedbound because you're deconditioned and you're also clearly deconditioned because you're bedbound" isn't any more credible just because someone really wants it to be true and has built their career on it.
     
  7. Dr Carrot

    Dr Carrot Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    2,554
    Because it was cheap and no one in medicine bothered to challenge it.
     

Share This Page