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Evidence of Clinical Pathology Abnormalities in People with ME/CFS from an Analytic Cross-Section (2019) Nacul et al.

Discussion in 'ME/CFS research' started by John Mac, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    https://www.mdpi.com/2075-4418/9/2/41
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2019
    Hutan, Joh, Joel and 16 others like this.
  2. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Interesting but a bit difficult to interpret. Creatine kinase mirrors activity to a significant extent. Going to a disco could double it. A level of 50 is very normal, just at the lower end. Pathology is associated with raised levels and not low levels by and large.
     
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  3. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    :laugh: how very '70s
     
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  4. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    I blame it on the boogie
     
  5. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    One thing maybe to think about is that CK might be a useful indicator of recovery of regular activity. It would be much simpler than actometry and could give a guide to activity over a recent period rather as glycated Haemoglobin gives a guide to average recent blood glucose levels.

    It might not matter whether the CK was a byproduct of activity or an index of a restoration of muscle health as such. Either way it would be an objective measure of the muscle being more regularly usable.
     
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  6. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    My CK has been intermittently elevated for about 14 years now and it appears it could be related to MCAS. Anyone else had elevated CK?

    https://www.clinicaltherapeutics.com/article/S0149-2918(15)00074-0/pdf

    I need to have a muscle biopsy done but my doctor won't do it until my vitamin d levels are back in range because it can skew the results but I don't tolerate vitamin d so that's not gonna happen.
     
  7. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That's a good idea.
     
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  8. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    My CK levels have been consistently on the low side (30s 40s) since I developed ME.
     
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  9. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Interesting. I also wonder if people with mild/moderate ME might not show much discrepancy, given my wife, for instance, can actually do quite a lot, compared to so many people here. But of course if that is true, then that itself might prove some useful discriminator for severity?
     
    JaneL likes this.
  10. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm a bit puzzled, as it seems to suggest in the abstract that they took account of activity levels and still found the difference in CK levels in severe patients.

    my bolding
     
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  11. aza

    aza Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    When I had my first episode of extreme burning I was tested for CK and the levels were elevated. One test doesn't mean anything really but Rheumatologist thought it was important, so I was referred to a Neurophysiologist who performed electromyography and nerve conduction study, all normal, but he said that small fiber neuropathy couldn't be ruled out by the tests.
     
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  12. JaneL

    JaneL Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I had a really low CK reading of just 10 (in the ‘abnormal’ range) in the year that I was diagnosed with ME which was probably when I was at my worst.
     
  13. JaneL

    JaneL Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I’m not sure they did a very good job of ‘adjusting for’ activity levels which were based on subjective reporting:

    I can imagine for example that the activity level of a healthy control answering “not active at all” would likely be vastly greater than a severe ME patient who put themselves in the same category.
     
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  14. Estherbot

    Estherbot Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  15. JaneL

    JaneL Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    They did pick up on this in the paper:

    My bolding.

    I’m unsure why they say it remains only a possible ‘partial’ explanation and why this couldn’t potentially provide a full explanation for the differences in CK levels?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
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  16. Estherbot

    Estherbot Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  17. JaneL

    JaneL Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  18. JaneL

    JaneL Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Also interesting, from the paper:

     
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  19. intrepidation

    intrepidation Established Member

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    CK levels are thought to decrease with inactivity due to not being released from muscle fibres. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9443588).
     
  20. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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